Replace rigging screws or not?

JumbleDuck

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Here is a copy /paste from your link which states -
. ‘Bronze’ rigging screws may be made from either silicon or aluminium bronze.
Hmm.
So surely your link must also not be appropriate to the discussion ?

That's telling him.

In a disagreement between this "Vyv Cox" character and the Cox Engineering website, I'll take the latter every day. Mind you, I find that an even better source of information is "Metals in Boats", by the bloke who runs the Cox Engineering website and is without doubt the definitive metallurgist for boating. You can get it from Amazon at Metals in Boats: Amazon.co.uk: Cox, Vyv: 9781785002625: Books.
 

vyv_cox

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An article from a company that specialise in amongst other things manufacturing 2205 grade stainless valve and strainers for military, commercial and leisure I would have thought knows what they are talking about when explaining differences between various bronzes and stainless.
Since a lot of this discussion is about bronze and stainless rigging screws then why do you say my copy/paste is not appropriate?
Your saying bronze bottle screws are tin bronze?
Here is a copy /paste from your link which states -
. ‘Bronze’ rigging screws may be made from either silicon or aluminium bronze.
Hmm.
So surely your link must also not be appropriate to the discussion ?
Maybe your an expert in the manufacturing of rigging screws in which case I'm all ears.
You could have just stated that rigging screws are also made from tin bronze but you chose to state that my contribution to this thread is not appropriate .
Glad I don't have to deal with you in professional life.
I take exception to posts that are clearly copied and pasted from some non-attributed source, particularly when they are only vaguely relevant to the discussion. Rigging screws are made from tin bronze, in some cases possibly phosphor bronze, the same composition but with a small addition of phosphorus as a deoxidant. When researching my book I was not able to discover whether some manufacturers were using silicon bronze or aluminium bronze (although I doubt it) so I added those words to the website as a catch-all.
 

Kukri

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My boat has Selden turnbuckles. The makers’ website says that the bodies are “chrome plated aluminium bronze” and the terminals are “high grade stainless steel”. I suspect these terms are for the punters rather than for metallurgists!

I suspect that replacing them will be horribly expensive!*

Rigging screws & acc. : Seldén Mast AB

*edited to add: Just looked them up. Ye Gods and little fishes! I could buy an entire dinghy or one cap shroud bottlescrew!?

... and after looking at Vyv’s website I am now having litters of kittens over some of the skin fittings and ball valves...
 
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dom

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I faced the same conundrum in 2016 as with shrouds up to 14mm replacement turnbuckles didn't come cheap. So I called ThyssenKrupp which I know a well. Got put through to some of the technical bods amongst whom the consensus was: (a) they weren't sure what the expected lifespan should be, (b) believed 10 years to be way too tight for full rig replacement in cruising applications, and (c), thought that more data was needed before forming any hard opinions.

So I called Pantaenius who were equally non-committal, but wondered whether it was worth skimping with rigging, some of which was getting on 15 years old.

So I decided to replace the lot, including the deck-mounted (chain-plates).

Ultimately, with so few rig failures around and such a multitude of use patterns, it is hard to be sure as to the merits of any decision.
 

Rappey

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Rigging screws are made from tin bronze,
And here we go again . :rolleyes:
Who the hell do you think you are to tell me an article explaining the differences between types of bronze and stainless in a marine environment is not relevant when the discussion was about bronze v stainless rigging screws? Do you think your the forum police ?
You've brought it up again but it's gone from not relevant to vaguely relevant ? Is the article incorrect ?
The copy paste which appears to mystify you is from arcticsteel.eu.
Jimmygreenmarine - manganese bronze or naval grade . Naval grade is clearly explained in my useless copy/paste
Peters stainless- aluminium bronze
Baseline- aluminium bronze
Selden- aluminium bronze.
Strange that many more google results are much of the same ?Aluminium bronze seems to be the most popular, contrary to what you appear to be stating.
I found lots of links in minutes yet you couldn't find out whilst researching for a book ?
Must be a great read.
 

JumbleDuck

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Jimmygreenmarine - manganese bronze or naval grade .
Jimmy Green sell three lines of bronze turnbuckle: Petersen, Stalok and Hamma. Petersen say they use aluminium bronze; neither Stalok nor Hamma say what alloy they use.
Peters stainless- aluminium bronze
The Petersen website confirms this claim, and also says "Old fashioned turnbuckle bodies are manufactured by forging a soft bronze to produce the desired shape.", confirming by implication that aluminum bronze is not the traditional material. It may be significant that Stalok say "Forged from high tensile Bronze alloy"
Baseline- aluminium bronze
Selden- aluminium bronze.
Same thing. Baseline sell Hasselfors rigging screws and Hasselfors is part of the Seldén group, having been taken over in 1989. The Seldén website confirms your claim: "By making the body of the rigging screw in chrome plated aluminium bronze and the terminals in high grade marine stainless steel..."
Strange that many more google results are much of the same ?Aluminium bronze seems to be the most popular, contrary to what you appear to be stating.
I found lots of links in minutes yet you couldn't find out whilst researching for a book ?
Vyv said that aluminium bronze may be used. It is, by two manufacturers, one of whom has recently introduced it. All the others I can find say just "bronze", from which the most that can be concluded is that they use the traditional alloy for that purpose.
Must be a great read.
It is. I recommend it. A lifetime of professional experience beats ten minutes on Google any day.
 

G12

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Rappey, relax for goodness sake man.

I think you'll find Vyv is particularly experienced in all matters engineering and (unless I've confused him with another forum member) metallurgy. Really no need to be so bloody rude at any rate.
 

Rappey

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Two things here, firstly the self appointed "forum police" telling someone what is relevant and what is not and then posting similar irrelevance. That's how this started. Who started being rude ? If it was not for that un necessary comment I probably would not have typed anything else.
Secondly, he has stated bronze rigging screws are made from tin bronze, in some cases possibly phosphor bronze (which ive never disagreed with) but he says "I was not able to discover whether some manufacturers were using silicon bronze or aluminium bronze (although I doubt it) "
A search on Google reveals aluminium bronze seems to be popular .
You can't be telling people what sort of bronze most rigging screws are made from when it's incorrect.
 

vyv_cox

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Two things here, firstly the self appointed "forum police" telling someone what is relevant and what is not and then posting similar irrelevance. That's how this started. Who started being rude ? If it was not for that un necessary comment I probably would not have typed anything else.
Secondly, he has stated bronze rigging screws are made from tin bronze, in some cases possibly phosphor bronze (which ive never disagreed with) but he says "I was not able to discover whether some manufacturers were using silicon bronze or aluminium bronze (although I doubt it) "
A search on Google reveals aluminium bronze seems to be popular .
You can't be telling people what sort of bronze most rigging screws are made from when it's incorrect.
I suggest you re-read your post, upon which you will perhaps see why I said it was irrelevant. It has nothing to do with rigging screws, largely being about galvanic corrosion in various alloys. A good deal of it concerns nickel-aluminium bronze and duplex stainless steels, from which rigging screws to my knowledge are not constructed. It is difficult to know just what the article is about as you have not linked it to the original but it would appear to be more about propeller materials than rigging screws, but certainly to items intended for underwater use.

I accept that there are now some companies who are now producing rigging screws in aluminium bronze but this was not the case several years ago when I was researching my book. I mentioned them in my website article because I understood that such use might be pending. My book says of silicon bronze : 'Some modern rigging screws are made in one of the high strength versions'.
 

JumbleDuck

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Secondly, he has stated bronze rigging screws are made from tin bronze, in some cases possibly phosphor bronze (which ive never disagreed with) but he says "I was not able to discover whether some manufacturers were using silicon bronze or aluminium bronze (although I doubt it) "
A search on Google reveals aluminium bronze seems to be popular .
Two manufacturers appear to use aluminium bronze, and one of them only started doing so recently. Perhaps neither did when Vyv wrote his book. An any case, your aggressive rudeness hugely diminishes the import of anything you have to say.
 

cherod

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Ahem!

48798794282_9c5eec566c_b.jpg



Now all I need is a suitable boat..... ;)
sure is lovely stuff , neat welding (y)
 

zoidberg

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Some of the peeps on 'ere seem to be refugees from MumsNet.....

Can I report this as a Hate Crime? 'Cos I hate this behaviour.....
 

zoidberg

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Given that this thread has been dragged down to a very common denominator, I'd like to ask a related question - but I'll start a different thread for that.
Let's hope/pray some helpful guidance will emerge before the rot sets in.
 
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