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Regulations, Red Tape and Rules.

CPD

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20 Sep 2006
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Hampshire
Firstly I should explain that I don't race (Westerly Centaur !), but last weekend I did a sea survival and ISAF crew course and had a very interesting chat with one of the instructors who does race offshore. We had a chat about the Jester Challenge and when he asked if it was a RORC/ISAF/CAT this or that, he could tell by the glazed look on my face that I didnt have a clue what he was talking about. After a bit more discussion, I am fairly sure that he advised that the Jester, if it was categorised, would be ISAF Category 1. With this in mind, I decided, out of interest, to see what I could find out. The link below shows he regulations covering vessels taking part in ISAF Cat 1 races :

http://sailing.org/offshore/2006/OSR2006_Mo1_250106.pdf

Now I should say two things :

1. I may have this badly wrong and I may have been given wrong information. Apologies in advance if this is so.
2. This posting has nothing whatsoever to do with encouraging such rules for the Jester Challenge. Far from it. It is rules/regs such as these that would put me, and Im sure quite a few others, off. Long may the spirit of the Jester Challenge continue.

The main point of this post I guess is to provide some food for thought. Some of it certainly makes interesting reading !
 

Noddy

Member
Joined
22 Jun 2005
Messages
621
Location
Thames Estuary
Its interesting that you start this thread as I think that there is something here that is important in why Jester is attractive to some and not to others.

I have found that my little 'favourite saying' below is a bit like marmite; people either like it or find it vaguely offensive.

I am coming to the opinion that rules are important in organisations and organised activities whereas the Jester is about independence and self sufficiency.

Is this true for everyone?

Is this the right place to ask why people want to do this or would another thread be more appropriate?
 

JREdginton

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Joined
15 May 2006
Messages
155
Give the open ocean aspect of the Jester it is most certainly a Cat 1 undertaking.

I have just been reading through the 'rules' and while not suggesting they be 'adopted' I feel, based on personal experience, that they offer a good starting point for basic preparation for such an event. For those who may be new to ocean passages they may make a good check list.

I for 1 am very much against 'rules', they can remove respsonsibility, create false confidence, invite disaster.

I am giving the Jester serious concideration because it does not impose 'rules' upon the participants but that does not mean that I wish to set sail and die! As such, if the gods permit, I will be preparing a vessel along similar lines to those outlined in the document, not becase they are there, but because of my own experiences and conclusions draw from those experiences, I feel many of the 'rules' are simply common sense when setting sail offshore.
 
Joined
20 Jul 2001
Messages
205
Location
Southampton, UK
I agree. Funny thing, rules - but the race ones have come about through experience, so - as John E says - makes a very useful guide. There were some great, practical ideas at the Petit Bateau conference, and the reasons they became 'law' was quite well explained.

What Jester doesn't require is the huge entry fee (usually around£1,500) to cover liability cover for the official race organisers.

There aren't any.

As for legislation, people who love boating often take the RYA exams, and have great delight in obtaining the Ocean Yachtmaster certificate as a personal Everest of skill level. It's a voluntary qualification, and you don't actually need it for general UK leisure use.

Hundreds of thousands of boaters have got themselves qualified.

But how many motorists have gone on to take the Advanced driving test, as a percentage of all those who drive? Not many, I suspect - but stand to be corrected. The driving test is compulsory - once you've got it, why bother with anything else?

I also agree with Noddy, with the Rules and Fools' quote. (Nice one.) When something is regulated to the hilt, people often rebel, or find ways round it.

When you're doing it purely for your own self interest, you go the extra mile. The Jester boats I have seen have been a goldmine of ideas, innovations and safety features.

Also, of course, if someone has told you to fit a certain piece of kit, possibly against your wishes or good judgement, is that person then 'responsible' if that bit of kit gets you into trouble? (BSS scheme, sensor breaks in the domestic gas systems on narrowboats, comes to mind. Insisted upon for safety, some of these later failed and made the boats into floating bombs.)

Jester is the antidote to our legislated world, so we need to keep it very much in the hands of the individual. From the skippers I have had the pleasure of meeting, they know what they're doing - and personal safety, with no commercial pressure of big prizes at stake - is top of the list.

Long may it continue!
 

CPD

Active member
Joined
20 Sep 2006
Messages
2,900
Location
Hampshire
Interesting comments. I think the "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the obediance of fools" actually sums up very well the theme of the Jester Challenge.
 

andlauer

New member
Joined
15 Mar 2007
Messages
310
Location
Paris France
--------
have found that my little 'favourite saying' below is a bit like marmite; people either like it or find it vaguely offensive. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
---------
Marmite is a proof of uncivilization /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
French point of view !!!
Eric
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

CPD

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Messages
2,900
Location
Hampshire
"Rules and Marmite are for the guidance and consumption of civilised wise men, and the obediance and denial of fools"

There, much better. It just has to be adopted, it really does !!

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

Noddy

Member
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22 Jun 2005
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Thames Estuary
Thankyou for an intellectually refreshing thread.

Now, How much Marmite would I need to get me to Newport?
And how long will it take for my taste buds to recover?
Will I be able to speak if I meet anyone?
Bread, or as a hot drink?
Toilet Paper!....
 

Gargleblaster

Well-known member
Joined
16 Dec 2003
Messages
1,139
Location
Medway, Gillingham Reach
[ QUOTE ]

Now, How much Marmite would I need to get me to Newport?

[/ QUOTE ]
How big is your boat? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Not quite Marmite, but I carry a 1Kg jar of Vegemite and then two tubes for emergency backup. Before the last Jester Challenge I was given a tube of Vegemite by an Australian journalist who had come to see us off. I didn't have the heart to tell him I was already well stocked. He came out for a short run with me before the race and I had to hide my stock of Vegemite away when I made him a cup of tea.
 

Noddy

Member
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22 Jun 2005
Messages
621
Location
Thames Estuary
What is vegemite?

Is it some kind of Australian lubricant? I have heard the term but never experienced it.
 

2nd_apprentice

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18 Mar 2007
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2,473
Location
Berlin
Asked an aussi friend and he was quite shocked that they sell vegemite in Pomland. Apart from that, yes it's a sort of Marmite.
No vegemite cookbook available though and doesn't taste as nice in a drink.
 

Gargleblaster

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16 Dec 2003
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Location
Medway, Gillingham Reach
http://www.lucinda.net/bill/vegemite/

We're happy little Vegemites

As bright as bright can be.

We all enjoy our Vegemite

For breakfast, lunch, and tea.

Our mother says we're growing

stronger every single week.

Because we love our Vegemite.

We all adore our Vegemite.

It puts a rose in every cheek!

Marinade:
1/4 cup red wine
1 tablespoon olive oil
1 tablespoon VEGEMITE
2 tablespoons tomato paste
few drops Tabasco sauce
 

andlauer

New member
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15 Mar 2007
Messages
310
Location
Paris France
Bonjour
I went on the Australian nationalist Vegemite site !
A great event !
If John was singing the gingle every morning, with his juvenile tone, I know why he had rigging problems! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

In the same spirit you have also the French Viandox. In addition the Viandox website is Mac-phoobic. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
I personnally prefer the Camembert and red wine as gastronomic "flags".
Eric
 
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