Refurbish a Facnor SD 180 furler drum and swivel

Pferdi

New member
Joined
10 Jun 2020
Messages
13
Visit site
Hi!

The Facnor C38 halyard swivel of my SD180 furler system got from sticky to stuck with time. That is ok after 17 years in service. Still I would like to redo it now instead of spending an astonishing sum of money to Facnor for new ones.
For me, the problem doing that is with the spare parts : Identifying the correct dimensions without pulling apart my Drum. And: Tracking down sources.
Following is a collection of my informtion so far. Please help me complete it.

Much information was taken from this excellent thread, dealing with refurbishing a Facnor SD165 system. The most important information besides dimensions I personally got out of that one was that it is indeed possible to refurbish the facnor system. Thanks guys over there. (y)(y):):)


Refurbish Swivel C38/R24 (for Facnor SD180 Furler system):
According to the Facnor 2018 pircelist, which contains a swivel drawing, the following is needed to refurbish:

2 x External Circlip Stainless Steel 58mm
Source: External Circlip (1400) Stainless Steel 58mm Shaft

1 x Internal Circlip Stainless Steel 75mm
Source: Internal Circlip (1300) Stainless Steel 75mm Shaft

1 x Internal Circlip Stainless Steel 72mm
Source: Internal Circlip (1300) Stainless Steel 72mm Shaft

2 x thrust roller ball bearing stainless steel: 58mm x76mm x9mm dxDxB (Inner Diameter x Outer Diameter x width)
Source: ??
OR:
dimensions of the balls and source ??



Refurbish Drum D180:
I did not find any dimensions. According to the drawing, these parts are needed, from top to bottom:
Oil seal (dimensions COULD be: 6x76x8mm Source COULD be: 56x76x8mm Nitrile Rubber Rotary Shaft Oil Seal with Garter Spring R23 / TC Simply Bearings Ltd
circlip Dimensions? Source?
Thrust roller ball bearing stainless steel
circlip Dimensions? Source?
circlip Dimensions? Source?
Thrust roller ball bearing stainless steel Dimensions? Source?
circlip Dimensions? Source?
Oil seal Dimensions? Source?



You see, there are still a couple of questionmarks. Very much appreciated if you...
...can you please supply dimensions of the swivel bearings balls?
...can you please supply dimensions for all parts of the Drum D180?
...can you please supply a source for bearings, balls, oil seals, circlips if above are missing/ faulty.



This is for a 2003 Beneteau 423 by the way.

Thanks a lot. :)
Pferdi
 

coopec

N/A
Joined
23 Nov 2013
Messages
5,216
Visit site
"2 x thrust roller ball bearing stainless steel: 58mm x76mm x9mm dxDxB (Inner Diameter x Outer Diameter x width)
Source: ??
OR:
dimensions of the balls and source ??"


I have had to buy different types of bearings and I've always gone to the online catalogs of bearing manufacturers ( SKF comes to mind). I recall I bought some bearings from a UK firm which was very professional and helpful. (I'll try to retrieve their name)

I did a duckduckgo (UK) search on bearings thrust suppliers and got lot of suppliers in the UK. (Just looking at the list I think I dealt with Simply Bearings) A lot of bearing suppliers sell on eBay as well

Here is Simply Bearings online catalog.
Bearings - All Bearing Types & Sizes - Simply Bearings
 

Pferdi

New member
Joined
10 Jun 2020
Messages
13
Visit site
Thank you very much for your infos. :giggle:(y)
You are absolutly right: Simply Bearings UK does deliver circlips and oil seals and lots of bearings. I still do not find the 58mm x76mm x9mm bearings anywhere, nor do I find the ones for the smaller system SD165 with the dimensions given as 44x60x8mm (also the SD165 thread does not give a source still people keep asking ). I do find oil seals with these dimensions. Feeling a bit like flying blind here...

Ether the bearings are super-special Facnor-specific ones.
Or the dimensions I have here are not correct.
Or I am not able to look in the right spot.
Or a combination of all.
Or I am missing something else.

Anyone able to give advise?
Thank you so much...


I will attach the Facnor drawings of the swivel which includes the bearing/circlips dimensions for the swivel C30 (for SD70, SD80, SD100, SD130, SD150, SD165) swivel C38 (for SD165, SD180) and C46 (for SD200, SD260 and SD290 ). And attached is a drawing of the drum, no dimensions in that one.
 

Attachments

  • Facnor Swivel.pdf
    218.2 KB · Views: 134
  • SD Furler drum.pdf
    128 KB · Views: 130

coopec

N/A
Joined
23 Nov 2013
Messages
5,216
Visit site
Ether the bearings are super-special Facnor-specific ones.
Or the dimensions I have here are not correct.
Or I am not able to look in the right spot.
Or a combination of all.
Or I am missing something else.
\

I haven't read your post properly yet because I really haven't had the time. If I am going over something you have already explained - my apologies

I'll go thru you post fully later but:

No manufacturer in their right mind would use a Facnor-specific roller race . Why would they do that? I suggest the dimensions are not correct. Are you sure the roller race is not Imperial.

I am convinced we'll find it. What catalogues have you looked in so far?


Have you contacted these people?

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any queries.
FACNOR SAS
Parc d’Activités
BP 222F-50550 SAINT-VAAST-LA HOUGUE
Tél.(33) 02.33.88.50.22
Fax (33) 02.33.23.14.27
E-mail : info@facnor.com
Web : www.facnor.com
Have you emailed this crowd?

INSTALLATION MANUAL
https://www.wichard.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Facnor-SD-furler-manual.pdf

TECHNICAL MANUAL
Technical brochure - headsail furler - Facnor

PRICE LIST

http://www.facnor.fr/fr/societe/catalogue/fichiers/tarifs_spares_p.pdf


When I get a chance I'll see if I can find one in a catalog

MAYBE YOUR MEASUREMENT IS SLIGHTLY WRONG (THIS IS SIMPLY BEARINGS ONLINE CATALOGUE)

Search Results: 58x76x9 58x9x76 76x58x9 76x9x58 9x76x58 9x58x76 - Simply Bearings Ltd
 
Last edited:

BobnLesley

Well-known member
Joined
1 Dec 2005
Messages
3,585
Location
Aground in Yorkshire awaiting a very high tide
Visit site
Sorry I can't remember the dimensions, nor even recall what size of unit our Facnor is - it is an SD model - but to offer reassurance I can say that contrary to what Facnor might tell you, both the top swivels (old and new varients) and the bottom drums are easily and quickly dismantled and re-assembled provided that you have decent quality internal and external circlip pliers to hand. I know from experience that you can still do the job with just a multitool and a jack-shit pair of internal circlip pliers if you have to, but it just takes a lot longer and you'll swear an awful lot more.
Strip them down inside a washing-up bowl and record each step of progress with a camera to ensure that you recall the reassembly order. Once off the foil and into the bowl it's twenty minutes to get one apart and forty to clean and reassemble; all the circlips and balls are standard sizes that your local bearing factor will have or be able to get in 48 hours. Contrary to earlier posts the bearings are all loose balls/races (no rollers) and the only seals I recall are fairly ineffective ones at top and bottom of the bottom drum, one of which I reused and the other was replaced with a piece of cut-down m/cycle inner tube.
S/steel circlips are best, but if mild steel's all you can get, then coat them in a decent waterproof grease; all three of our problems stemmed from circlip failures, it seems the original build uses the cheapest,nastiest, designed-to fail, circlips that're available. I do have some photos of disassembled units to hand if you want them
 

coopec

N/A
Joined
23 Nov 2013
Messages
5,216
Visit site
. Contrary to earlier posts the bearings are all loose balls/races (no rollers) and the only seals I recall are fairly ineffective ones at top and bottom of the bottom drum, one of which I reused and the other was replaced with a piece of cut-down m/cycle inner tube.
That narrows the field

A quick look here though and I can't find anything like 58 X 76 X 9

Bearings - All Bearing Types & Sizes - Simply Bearings

Search Results: 58x76x9 58x9x76 76x58x9 76x9x58 9x76x58 9x58x76 - Simply Bearings Ltd

Bearings - All Bearing Types & Sizes - Simply Bearings
 
Last edited:

Mistroma

Well-known member
Joined
22 Feb 2009
Messages
4,882
Location
Greece briefly then Scotland for rest of summer
www.mistroma.com
Pretty certain my system is a Facnor LS180 and I had problems with the CX swivel after only 3.5 years. I believe that the SD swivel might be easier to dismantle but the model I have is very different.

I contacted Facnor at the time and explained that I wasn't near any dealers. They eventually supplied suggestions to inject grease and then oil when I said that was impossible. Pretty certain my messages weren't directed to anyone technical. I did finally get the exploded diagram I needed to dismantle the swivel. It wasn't really much help and was eventually told it could only be done by a dealer when I asked for clearer instructions.

I can usually work out how to dismantle anything unless special tools are required and even then I usually manage.

My final solution was simple enough. Remove the swivel and dismantle as far as possible to take out seals, plastic inserts, circlips and so forth. Place in a bucket and drizzle diesel into the swivel over 2-3 days until it runs clear. I collected an amazing amount of fine black gritty material. Allow to bake dry in the sun for a couple of days before spraying lots of Holts Pro-lube into the swivel. The Pro-lube is very thin and does run inside when the upright swivel is rotated. It does thicken up if left but still runs into the bearing.

I did this about 7 years ago and the swivel was still fine last year. I always re-grease the end seals at start and end of each season to slow down dust penetration. It serves no purpose in actually lubricating the swivel. I did this since new as per Facnor's instructions but the bearing still became sticky. I now seal the swivel top with plastic and self-amalgamating tape each winter and squeeze a little grease into the slot in the foil just above the swivel. Lots of Sahara dust in winter and this should stop water running down into the bearing.

I would be interested in a source for new top and bottom seals but haven't managed to find anyone selling the correct size.
 
Last edited:

coopec

N/A
Joined
23 Nov 2013
Messages
5,216
Visit site
78 mm = 3.07087......... 3 inch?
56 mm = 2.20472......... 2 1/4 inch? (2.25in)
9mm = 8444............... 1/3 inch would equal 9.525mm

Have you ruled out Imperial?
 

BobnLesley

Well-known member
Joined
1 Dec 2005
Messages
3,585
Location
Aground in Yorkshire awaiting a very high tide
Visit site

And there's not much point looking, as there are no caged bearings nor lipped seals within the Facnor SD units that I've pulled apart. Photos of the bottom drum and a later model top-swivel internals are attached
 

Attachments

  • bottom drum.jpg
    bottom drum.jpg
    152.9 KB · Views: 156
  • top swivel.jpg
    top swivel.jpg
    170.8 KB · Views: 143

coopec

N/A
Joined
23 Nov 2013
Messages
5,216
Visit site
And there's not much point looking, as there are no caged bearings nor lipped seals within the Facnor SD units that I've pulled apart. Photos of the bottom drum and a later model top-swivel internals are attached

I'm sure Pferdi will be happy to know that.......

Sounds like a pretty crude set-up but I suppose there's not too much wear and tear over time.

Simply Bearings supply loose balls anyway (if they needed replacing)
Loose Bearings: Loose Needle Roller, Steel & Plastic Ball Bearings
 
Last edited:

Beneteau381

Well-known member
Joined
19 Nov 2019
Messages
1,894
Visit site
I'm sure Pferdi will be happy to know that.......

Sounds like a pretty crude set-up but I suppose there's not too much wear and tear over time.

Simply Bearings supply loose balls anyway (if they needed replacing)
Loose Bearings: Loose Needle Roller, Steel & Plastic Ball Bearings
All v interesting for me too! Ive got the SD180. Its the swivel that has always worried me. I usually flush it every year with a can of WD40 or similar and then use some teflon lube. Would be interesting to see what the ball actual size is. Am I mistaken in thinking they may be a form of plastic?
 

BobnLesley

Well-known member
Joined
1 Dec 2005
Messages
3,585
Location
Aground in Yorkshire awaiting a very high tide
Visit site
...Would be interesting to see what the ball actual size is. Am I mistaken in thinking they may be a form of plastic?

Can't help you with ball size as we never replaced any, though the earlier suggestion of 5mm or 3/16" would be there or thereabouts, that said, if you're only short of one or two, don't worry about it, our bo.ttom drum's been two short for years and one of the top swivels' is one short, never noticed a difference/problem.
Ball material in the 'old' drum and swivel is s/steel whilst the new (bought 2012) top swivel has delrin or similar 'plastic' balls
 

Pferdi

New member
Joined
10 Jun 2020
Messages
13
Visit site
Thank you for all your input!!

Ok, let’s see:

I had Facnor and some dealers emailed about this some time ago. I think they prefer selling new ones if you know what I mean.

I also think that no System manufacturer produces their own bearings but couldn’t yet find exactly the ones I was looking for. I searched the NSK catalogue as well as a couple of mostly UK based bearing dealer: bearingstation, simply bearings and one I don’t remember.
Leaves us with the size of the bearings. I double checked they are metric, found it in one of the pdf I attached further up. So the size could be wrong......hm...

I cleaned swivel/ drum for years with plenty of water. That helps indeed if there is no real issue with it. When it started to degrade I switched to wd40 for cleaning which extend d life another 3-4 years. Wd40 seems to be not enough now anymore :cry:

Then a couple of you suggested replacing the balls. That sounds promising! Still there is no balls size available for SD 180. I do not have a set of circlips pliers yet, but I think I will take those things apart now. Thanks for the pics and all the hints in doing so! Silly question: does the forestay have to come off to undo the top swivel?

Re long circlippliers: can anyone please give necessary dimensions or a link? Sorry for these stupid questions. I am lockdowned in Indonesia and every parcel takes 6 weeks so it has to be right the first time. :)

Merci beaucoup everyone so far. :):)
 

coopec

N/A
Joined
23 Nov 2013
Messages
5,216
Visit site
I am lockdowned in Indonesia and every parcel takes 6 weeks so it has to be right the first time.
Lock-downed because of the virus or are you there permanently? (Just wondering where you want the pliers delivered).
Do you want to buy locally or maybe from UK (or Australia) If you buy on eBay from China you could be waiting two months.
Are you based in Jakarta or some outlying island?

circlip pliers - Google Search

machinery tools jakarta - Google Search
 

BobnLesley

Well-known member
Joined
1 Dec 2005
Messages
3,585
Location
Aground in Yorkshire awaiting a very high tide
Visit site
...does the forestay have to come off to undo the top swivel?

Re long circlippliers: can anyone please give necessary dimensions or a link.../QUOTE]

I would be very surprised if you need to renew the balls, unless of course too many have been lost; I've not seen significant wear on any of the units I've opened-up, it's invariably been degraded circlips exacerbated by dirt/grease/salt in the bearings.

The forestay can stay in place, once the bottom drum's removed, the top swivel just slides off the bottom of the foil. the most problematic part of disassembly is likely to be removing the bottom drum: There is a bolt through the aluminium casting above the rope drum which keys into the foil, this was very badly seized the first time I removed ours - 30 years of salt water hitting it - as I recall it was a 6mm bolt which we eventually drilled it out, the re-drilled and tapped casting to accept an 8mm bolt.

The circlip pliers don't need to be especially long - you can access drum and swivel from both ends - just of reasonable quality; those which are sold with one set of handles and a selection of demountable prongs don't work; just a simple set of 4-5" straight nosed internal and another external pliers will do it.
 
Top