Povoa de Varzim - Portuguese Residency

[Bilge Rat]

Just wondered if anyone had any experience of applying for 5 year temporary residency in Povoa de Varzim (or Leixoes)? We're trying to avoid the 90/180 problem for future years (when we'll have more time). This is about as far South as we think we can realistically get this year with work constraints. All assuming of course that borders reopen as expected.....
Thanks for any insights.

 

[nortada]

Just wondered if anyone had any experience of applying for 5 year temporary residency in Povoa de Varzim (or Leixoes)? We're trying to avoid the 90/180 problem for future years (when we'll have more time). This is about as far South as we think we can realistically get this year with work constraints. All assuming of course that borders reopen as expected.....
Thanks for any insights.

Povoa de Varzim should offer residency but if they prove difficult, you could consider hoping on a train and heading south to The Algarve, where they may prove more amenable but you would have to satisfy the Algarve authorities that you are resident in their county .

Possibly somebody at that end of the country will be able to give fuller advice.

 

[Ningaloo]

I am also interested in this. I spent 2 winters at Povoa (2013-15). Might get that far again by the end of the summer.

 

[Graham376]

West coast ports are more transit locations where, compared to the Algarve, few people take up residence so may prove more difficult. Remember that initial 5 year residence is given for being resident in a town's area at the address you can prove you live, not just a case of "I'm in the country". We've never had a marina contract (mooring based) and at that time didn't own property so, when I applied for residence in a Lisbon suburb had to provide two citizen witnesses to swear on oath that I lived at a particular address.

Algarve towns are well used to a few thousand visitors of all EU nationalities spending extended period there in boats and holiday homes so people registering residence will most likely be a daily occurrence. Lagos for instance accept marina contract as an address and Faro accept Nave Pegos (Bruce's) boatyard. There are far more stringent rules and checks at the end of the 5 years, when applying for permanent status at SEF, the Immigration dept.

 

[nortada]

West coast ports are more transit locations where, compared to the Algarve, few people take up residence so may prove more difficult. Remember that initial 5 year residence is given for being resident in a town's area at the address you can prove you live, not just a case of "I'm in the country". We've never had a marina contract (mooring based) and at that time didn't own property so, when I applied for residence in a Lisbon suburb had to provide two citizen witnesses to swear on oath that I lived at a particular address.

Algarve towns are well used to a few thousand visitors of all EU nationalities spending extended period there in boats and holiday homes so people registering residence will most likely be a daily occurrence. Lagos for instance accept marina contract as an address and Faro accept Nave Pegos (Bruce's) boatyard. There are far more stringent rules and checks at the end of the 5 years, when applying for permanent status at SEF, the Immigration dept.

Agree all the above.

Initially, when the question of first came up post Brexit, the sticking point was that many boat owners lived in a marina berth during the winter (on a 6 or 9 month contract) and sailed (out of Portuguese Waters), during the summer months.

Officialdom was not happy but speaking with the "right people", who spoke with the "movers and shakers", resolved this problem and official motor-home/caravan parks were also recognized as residences.

Moving on, when the 5 year temporary residency expires, although the rules say you can't, I understand that some (boatties?) have already been given another 5 years temporary residency. This gets around the anomaly that any visitor planning to stay in Portugal for 3 month or more is required to register and registration carries with it temporary residency. Failure to do so can carry an up to €1500 fine. Not that i have ever heard of it being imposed.

A neat solution, which could meet all ends to keep the marinas and caravan parks full and the associated money rolling in.

Our temporary residency expires in Sep 2023 so I will start taking a greater interest in this issue nearer that date, when hopefully it will have been resolved by those who go before.

 

[Graham376]

Our temporary residency expires in Sep 2023 so I will start taking a greater interest in this issue nearer that date, when hopefully it will have been resolved by those who go before.

Could be interesting times. EU citizens have the right to residence but, as from next year, we will cease to be citizens. Don't know yet whether we will be treated the same as other non EU countries citizens applying for permanent status which is far more difficult or, if already having the 5 year residence we'll still qualify.

It appears those wanting the 5 year residence must apply this year.

 

[Sandyman]

Greetings from Paradise well near enough, try Bruces Yard Faro right on the water-front of the Ria Formossa .
Canadian friends visited the CAMARA last Tuesday to apply for fiscal numbers & at the same time apply for 5 year temporary residence. Got a phone call last Thursday morning &told to come pick up your permits . They provided the Champagne that very evening . Never know things to move so fast here.

 

[nortada]

Greetings from Paradise well near enough, try Bruces Yard Faro right on the water-front of the Ria Formossa .
Canadian friends visited the CAMARA last Tuesday to apply for fiscal numbers & at the same time apply for 5 year temporary residence. Got a phone call last Thursday morning &told to come pick up your permits . They provided the Champagne that very evening . Never know things to move so fast here.

Do they have property ashore or are they liveaboards?

 

[Graham376]

Do they have property ashore or are they liveaboards?

Canada, along with a few other countries has a bi-lateral agreement with Portugal so not a problem getting residence. Question is - will UK have bi-lateral agreement?

 

[nortada]

Canada, along with a few other countries has a bi-lateral agreement with Portugal so not a problem getting residence. Question is - will UK have bi-lateral agreement?

Thought we already had one - Treaty of Windsor 1386?

Last time updated 1982 for the Falklands War.

 

[nortada]

Double post.

 

[Graham376]

Thought we already had one - Treaty of Windsor 1386?
Last time updated 1982 for the Falklands War.

Not on the list here - How to Get Portuguese Residency for Non-EU Citizens

 

[nortada]

Not on the list here - How to Get Portuguese Residency for Non-EU Citizens

Might be added to the list once we are no longer EU citizens?

 

[V1701]

This is exactly the area I was going to be heading for this year - I had a year off work booked and was going to sail over, get a marina contract and get a 5 year residency to buy some breathing space. Year off was cancelled due to Corona but I still want to get a 5 year residency somehow if I can, I have 4 weeks annual leave to play with that my work almost certainly would not be happy me taking in one shot and even if I did that's not long enough to single hand UK to Portugal and sort all the rest out. So I'm thinking of possibilities like driving a camper van down there but I see that as a bit of a gamble, possibly going over and renting a flat for a few months (I think that's possible nce you have your fiscal number) to get a residency. Or paying someone to deliver the boat to one of the marinas and I fly over to sort out the rest once she's there...

I also don't know whether my boat would be allowed to stay in Portugal if I get her there next year instead of this and whether I'd have to pay VAT (I do have T2L for what that's worth and the boat is 1969 if that makes a difference)...

 

[Bilge Rat]

This is exactly the area I was going to be heading for this year - I had a year off work booked and was going to sail over, get a marina contract and get a 5 year residency to buy some breathing space. Year off was cancelled due to Corona but I still want to get a 5 year residency somehow if I can, I have 4 weeks annual leave to play with that my work almost certainly would not be happy me taking in one shot and even if I did that's not long enough to single hand UK to Portugal and sort all the rest out. So I'm thinking of possibilities like driving a camper van down there but I see that as a bit of a gamble, possibly going over and renting a flat for a few months (I think that's possible nce you have your fiscal number) to get a residency. Or paying someone to deliver the boat to one of the marinas and I fly over to sort out the rest once she's there...

I also don't know whether my boat would be allowed to stay in Portugal if I get her there next year instead of this and whether I'd have to pay VAT (I do have T2L for what that's worth and the boat is 1969 if that makes a difference)...

That's pretty much exactly our situation too. Our boat is 1978 and we also have a T2L along with a very poor photocopy of an invoice showing 12.5% VAT. We can probably string together three weeks in July or August and we're trying to work out what is feasible in that time...

 

[Sandyman]

Do they have property ashore or are they liveaboards?

Full-Time liveaboards.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Povoa de Varzim should offer residency but if they prove difficult, you could consider hoping on a train and heading south to The Algarve, where they may prove more amenable but you would have to satisfy the Algarve authorities that you are resident in their county .

Possibly somebody at that end of the country will be able to give fuller advice.

This Brexit malarkey is clarifying some of these issues. It appears that the 5 year residency we refer to is actually an EU regulation for all citizens of another EU country to register your presence in a particular Country. It is not residency per se

So This route may be a dead end. So we need to be aware of what other schemes there are for current third party countries.
There is no doubt in my mind that if the EU does not grant a reciprocal 6 month Visa, then the Portuguese will be falling over themselves to do a UNILATERAL deal with the UK as will every other Brit infested country in Europe. The UK Government knows this, and is not falling into the trap of giving away things (such as fishing rights) when it is just not necessary - as there are other ways. Because of this pressure, the EU may just give up, but if not, all is very much not lost.

I have been talking on this with the Greek Government and whilst they can do nothing on agreeing this now - the Commission have put a gagging order on all side deals till the deal is agreed - they have said it is top priority to sort this out quickly - they know that much business will go to Turkey for the 2nd half of the year plus over winter payments to Turkey boat yards! They were disturbed by this and said they were looking for a competitive advantage over other countries which may be slow to move.

This type of agreement is one sided - they already have 6 months access offered, and the Greeks have just said - if we have 6 months, then you will have 6 months and this can be organise just by the Greek government - no requirement for bureaucratic FO involvement!

 

[Graham376]

This Brexit malarkey is clarifying some of these issues. It appears that the 5 year residency we refer to is actually an EU regulation for all citizens of another EU country to register your presence in a particular Country. It is not residency per se

The 5 year residence actually states the holder is a citizen of the EU which of course we won't be after 31/12 so, most likely not an option next year. Permanent residence ID which lasts 10 years also says the same so, it will be interesting to see what will happen at renewal. Fortunately, those of us married to a citizen have more rights when applying for citizenship (if needed) than others.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I also don't know whether my boat would be allowed to stay in Portugal if I get her there next year instead of this and whether I'd have to pay VAT (I do have T2L for what that's worth and the boat is 1969 if that makes a difference)...

If you are in UK Customs area (ie not Jersey etc., )on 31st December 2020, then your boat will reduce to just UK Vat paid, and you will have to Temporarily Import which is OK PROVIDED you do not get residency in any EU27 country - or have a part owner who is a EU citizen.

So you should if you can get to a country of the EU27 this year.

In theory the EU commission clarification states: "if you are in the UK Customs area - ie UK waters, you will become UK Vat paid. So being in Jersey or Turkey might be acceptable - but for surety you will need to be in EU27 as countries may interpret the rules in different ways. I have a request out to the Greek Vat boys to clarify the situation for UK yachts in Turkey unable to reach Greek waters due to Covid, asking them to state their interpretation of the In UK Waters bit. I will chase next week.

Your payment evidence will be suitable but useful to have that Boatyard letter saying you were there.

Looks like the jet stream is back to normal, so at least a Biscay passage will now be forecastable and doable before the Autumn - when you insurance may not cover you for the passage. Get somewhere like Brest or one of the other ports to the south in Brittany.

 

[nortada]

As you are heading for Portugal, your T2L could be your trump card?