Passage Planning Tyne - Dover

[GraemeMcDonald]

I have bought a well-found yacht in NE England (Tyneside) which I shall need to take down to the Solent in the spring. I have sailed just about everywhere up the West from La Coruna to Skye over the last 40 years but have never been east of Brighton and know nothing about the North Sea and East Coast. Looking at it, I am tempted to just accept a long, offshore passage - timed with the weather in mind - rather than coast-hopping and worrying about some challenging harbour entries along the way. I will have a good crew of two plus me. Of course, I will be prepared to seek refuge if necessary. My question to those who know is roughly what sort of offing and routing to go for, especially past the Humber and the Southern stretch (Norfolk - Dover) plus any other useful passage planning advice. Thank you.

 

[Tomahawk]

Basically... there is nothing between the Humber and Lowestoft for a yacht.
Once you get into the best sailing water in the UK there are plenty of rives to explore
Going west from Dover the next stop is Eastbourne and you cannot get the tides right to avoid punching.

 

[GraemeMcDonald]

I am happy once off Dover. I just want to get round to the S coast in as straightforward a way as possible. Was thinking about making a long board SE from theTyne to around 3 deg E then running S towards N end of Straits?

 

[boyblue]

I have only sailed south to north from Harwich to Hartlepool. Most important to get the tides right, The tide gate at North Foreland especially. As Tomahawk mentions, there are very few ports on this stretch, Gt. Yarmouth, Lowestoft, Southwold and Harwich the only safe havens. With 4 crew you could do one complete passage, outside the mud banks timed with a north westerly off shore wind it would be possible in 36 - 40 hours depending on your hull speed.
Fair winds.

 

[footsoldier]

I've only ever done it in the opposite direction too. As Tomahawk says, for a large part of the trip there are no suitable stop-overs, so I agree with you that the best plan is to do it in one hit, at least as far as the bottom corner. As long as you can bide your time for suitable wind/weather conditions, with a sound crew it should be a decent off-shore trip - just keep well clear of all the windmills!

 

[GraemeMcDonald]

Yes - the more I think about it, the more I am inclined to stay clear of the coast. Tyne - Solent about 450nm so about a 4-day run at 5 kts VMG. Once S of Thames Estuary (say three days) we can dive in to Margate or beyond for a break if we need it. I’m really looking for any thoughts on wind farm/gas fields, sea conditions over shallower areas, anything to definitely avoid etc. Happy about managing TS zones etc but again, any advice welcome. Thank you.

 

[PeterWright]

Hi Graeme,

As others have said, not much by way f ports of refuge from thee Tyne to Lowestoft, especially in a ne or e blow.. There's not mucjhh over that stretch which would class as a port of refuge - the Humber is hardly inviting. Just before Lowestoft is Great Yarmouth, which has a workable entrance but is not a yacht friendly port. However Lowestoft is a usable entrance, although "interesting" in E gales and above. Harwich is a simple entance in terms of navigation and conditions, so longas you keep a sharp look out for container ships. Once in Harwich harbour, you have a choice of harbours as you head up the Orwell estuary to Ipswich.

The first (Shotley) and the last two ( Neptune and Ipswich Haven) require locking in. In between these you will find Suffolk Yacht Harbour, Wolverstone and Fox's, all of which are all tide entrances. I would recommend Harwich as a first stopover. From Harwich to the Solent, comfortable stops are Ramsgate, Eastbourne and Brighton. I exclude Dover because I like to pass well offshore to aid the ferry dodging and I have heard that there is a large Scend in the new marina which has been built to allow the old docks to be built over, although I haven't been in there since it was built.

Routing from the Tyne to Harwich is a matter of dodging the wind farms and keeping out of the Wash. From Harwich to N. Foreland, you have a choice between an outdoor route, around Long Sand Head then direct to N. Foreland or a more interesting inland route across the Estuary forwhich you should read Roger Gaspar's "Crossing the Thames Estuary" and see his associated website:

Home (crossingthethamesestuary.com)

It would seem a shame to me to sail through these waters without trying a few swatchways and I believe Long Sand Head is more dangerous than most of the swatchways. Do not try either of these rotes without up to date charts or with old mapping data in your plotter.

From N Foreland to Dungeness you need to get your tide gate right and, if you do this, you might miss the gate at Beachy Head, which could prompt a stop in Eastbourne's Sovereign Harbour.Alternatively, if you stick it out getting 2 of the 3 tide gates right, you should do Harwich - Solent in 24 hours or a bit more.

Peter.

p.s. Just found my almost identical post on another thread where you asked the same Q. I couldn't see it here so though I must have forgotten to click "Post reply"! P.

p.p.s. Don't even thiink about Margate. Whitstable possibly, if you don't mind drying out! Much better to stand on for Ramsgate, making sure you get the N.Foreland tide gate right, but Harwich will be a more comfortable first stop, then straight to Solent or Eastbourne as a second stop. P.

 

[GraemeMcDonald]

Thank you - very helpful. Margate was typo (!) as I meant Ramsgate. I need to have a good think about it; being from the Inner Hebrides (now sailing from the Solent), I am quite unused to the idea of all these swatchways, sand banks, wind farms etc etc, hence my instinct to just get the passage done. I am no creek-crawler and have very great respect for those who are - accomplished pilots all! The yacht in question is a 40’ long-keel boat with. 2m draft, so perfect for passage-making but maybe less so for East Coast harbour-hopping. I shall do more reading and thinking, for which there is plenty of time at the moment! Many thanks again for your response.

 

[westhinder]

Seeing your priorities, I would aim for Lowestoft as a first stop and try not to arrive there against the tide. Next go outside the sandbanks of the Thames estuary to Ramsgate, or if the tide is favourable continue to Dover or beyond. That way you are skipping some really beautiful east coast rivers, which are worth a detour, but then you would have to be in cruising mode instead of delivery

 

[Gary Fox]

Im my opinion it would be a shame to miss the fascinating historic harbours on the way. 2m draught is not an issue, and I also have a long keeler.
I did exactly that trip last year, from Royal Quays, bit by bit, in autumn and winter. Mostly with various crew, some legs solo. Spent Xmas day in Dover. Hartlepool, Whitby and Scarborough are very interesting to visit.

I would get Henry Irving's pilot book, Forth, Tyne, Dogger, old but excellent. At least to know what you are missing, if you go round the outside!

Flamborough Head is a tidal gateway, more so than you might expect.

It's not a great coastline to be butting into a spring ebb.

The Humber is huge and deep, and definitely a refuge; between you and me, allegedly, there are buoys by Spurn lifeboat station if you are threaders. Grimsby is very friendly and not far from the entrance, but the whole estuary has constant heavy commercial traffic, under VTS control, and strong tides, not for the faint-hearted.

Avoid The Wash, in fact avoid Norfolk, and Wells Bar in particular is dangerous in anything except ideal conditions.

Lowestoft has a narrow entrance with cross tides, it's worth going through the bridge to the sheltered inner marina if you are taking refuge from weather.

We found hopping down the coast very rewarding, the harbours are great to visit, and you are less exposed, off season, to bad weather compared to taking la longue route, because in the event of wanting to pop in somewhere, you might have to stooge about for a rising tide for several hours.

Heading south the flood tide is going your way and giving you deep water to get into Scarborough for example...it would be rather miserable northbound..

Once you get to Harwich you are laughing.

 

[GraemeMcDonald]

I am very grateful for the trouble you and others have taken to reply and to encourage me to take my time coming down to visit your coast, which is obviously a great sailing ground. However, my plan is to make the trip as directly as possible, finding out all the wrinkles on the way. Then, I shall sort out whatever needs to be sorted before setting off for Ireland, where I plan to spend the summer cruising the S/SW coast in company with another yacht. Hence my reluctance to tarry or divert on my delivery trip!

I am getting on a bit and toyed with the idea of a motor boat last year but decided to stay with sail and have gone for this boat, (which is also stricken in years) but sound and set up with an easy-to-manage rig and a strong engine. Hopefully, she will give me a few years’ more cruising before I have to pack it up and buy a little Seaward or similar to see me into my dotage ...

 

[Crowblack]

Some very good advice above, having done it both ways couple of times can't add much - except - of the entrances you are likely to be using on the East Coast, Harwich is by far the easiest and provides the most varied places to stay over.

If leaving Harwich to get round the corner off North Foreland it is possible to time arriving at North Foreland to exploit the increased tide in the Dover Strait to take you onto Dover rather than stopping at Ramsgate.

Good luck with your passage - and enjoy your new boat.

 

[GraemeMcDonald]

Of course, thinking about it overnight, my plan is based on some pretty ambitious assumptions about COVID. If it turns out that I can’t get down to the Solent until late Spring/Summer, I won’t be going to Ireland afterwards, so I guess plan B would be to take a more leisurely route down and explore some of your lovely-sounding coast instead, so I’ll just have to wait and see. Many thanks in the meantime for all the advice.

 

[johnalison]

I don't know the northern part of the trip, but from Suffolk south the strongest currents are at Dover, over 3kn. Going that way we normally aim to pass Dover with the new tide down the Gull stream which will just about get us to Dungeness before there is too much against. We would then buck the weaker tide west and expect it to change in our favour before Beachy Head.

 

[hinch]

grimsby marina is near the entrance of the humber but a little out of town and open if you head further down to hull marina its protected by tall a buildings on all asides so even in the recent storms the marina its self was nice and calm also its town center based so easy access to shops etc should you need it as well as a nice restaurant or 2

none of the marina's on the humber do free flow so you'll have to give them a shout in advance. currents aren't anywhere near as bad as people make out but watch for shallows as they're worse than everyone makes out and shift rapidly pilot chart accuracy is only guaranteed for i believe 60 days by abp

 

[alexrunic]

If you want to stop on the Northern section the best options are Whitby, Scarborough, Grimsby, Wells, Lowestoft. Whitby & Wells are fine in anything but strong northly winds.

At Wells they will come out to the fairway buoy and guide you in.

My 2 favourite harbours on this coast are Wells and Whitby.

 

[GraemeMcDonald]

Thanks to all. As each day passes, my hopes for an extended summer cruise to Ireland diminish and a leisurely cruise down the East Coast looks ever more inviting - provided I am even able to get away this side of Summer! No need for further replies until the COVID situation becomes clearer as Spring approaches then, if necessary, I shall return for further guidance. In the meantime, renewed thanks - what a friendly and informative bunch of expert creek-crawlers and sandbank-dodgers you are and I am most grateful for your tolerance of one who views the coast with ill-disguised fear and horror! Off to read ‘The Riddle of the Sands’ again to bolster my courage ...

 

[Daydream believer]

none of the marina's on the humber do free flow so you'll have to give them a shout in advance. currents aren't anywhere near as bad as people make out but watch for shallows as they're worse than everyone makes out and shift rapidly pilot chart accuracy is only guaranteed for i believe 60 days by abp

I have been through the Grimsby lock 3 times in free flow. On my first visit they made me wait for 1 hour for free flow because of all the wind farm traffic needing to use the locks. Are you saying that no longer applies?

 

[WoodyP]

Grimsby lock can be a bit exiting as at full flow you go through and get buffeted to either side if you're not careful. The wind farm traffic goes first. I have been there at high springs when the flood boards are up, and you won't get in or out. You can anchor at Spurnhead or on the other side near Tetney in calm conditions to have a rest and save yourself a couple of hours each way up to Grimsby.

 

[Jokani]

Grimsby lock can be a bit exiting as at full flow you go through and get buffeted to either side if you're not careful.

Even neaps or somewhere in between can as you say be 'exciting', but a few other words spring to mind! Not for the feint of heart that's for sure.