Ostende and red diesel - BEWARE

phatcat1

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Just a heads up, a friend of our was in Ostende about 2 weeks ago. He was the only UK boat there.

Had the usual visit from customs - then they asked about what diesel was in his tanks, he then produced the receipt but it didn't make any difference. Fined for having red diesel.

500 Euro fine + tankage.

New finance minister apparently and is very anti red diesel usage. They even fined two Belgian yachts with red in their tanks.
 

Boz

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How apart from cans, does one fill with white diesel? Am I right in thinking most Marinas only sell red. Doesn't garage diesel with its bio content have a detrimental affect on engine seals?
 

Athene V30

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How apart from cans, does one fill with white diesel? Am I right in thinking most Marinas only sell red. Doesn't garage diesel with its bio content have a detrimental affect on engine seals?
Don't confuse practicality with legality! Why would the rule makers and their advisors (presumably in this case the RYA) be bothered with how we achieve what they have written! ;-)
 

Boz

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Don't confuse practicality with legality! Why would the rule makers and their advisors (presumably in this case the RYA) be bothered with how we achieve what they have written! ;-)
I was under the impression that the RYA were (are) on our side with this issue, I rather suspect that their lobby voice falls on deaf ears or ears tuned to other things......
 

Cantata

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I suggested that the RYA should be told because when I have heard their legal people talk about the perceived problem over the last couple of years, they apparently have not been contacted by anybody who has been fined so all they are getting is anecdotal evidence. Whatever you might think of the RYA, they are certainly on our side on this issue and in the early days of it they helped some British owners to get their fines refunded.
My current understanding was that Les Belges had agreed an unofficial moratorium and told the Douanes to back off. But this is the second occurrence reported on here in the last week or two (or was it the same boat reported by two different people) so it needs following up.
 

Kurrawong_Kid

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How apart from cans, does one fill with white diesel? Am I right in thinking most Marinas only sell red. Doesn't garage diesel with its bio content have a detrimental affect on engine seals?
Very difficult to get white diesel in cans from British garages because erroneously (according to Ipswich trading standards) they will only allow you to have 2 gallons in a can, unless you can find a "pay at pump" at the dead of night! Reported this to Shell and the RYA but they didn't think it was an issue, but they were not fined in Ostende were they?
 

Boz

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I suggested that the RYA should be told because when I have heard their legal people talk about the perceived problem over the last couple of years, they apparently have not been contacted by anybody who has been fined so all they are getting is anecdotal evidence. Whatever you might think of the RYA, they are certainly on our side on this issue and in the early days of it they helped some British owners to get their fines refunded.
My current understanding was that Les Belges had agreed an unofficial moratorium and told the Douanes to back off.
Clearly not the case ( last paragraph), as there are two threads on page one of this forum citing recent incidents. I made the point earlier, that it seems to be the whim of the Belgian officils thst determine one's fate? or maybe just a failure to communicate the current policy, anyway I will avoid Belgium for the time being and hope that the problem does not spread to Holland.....
 

Tomahawk

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Actually one needs to get it onto the TV or local radio.

Politicians only react to publicity. A reporter from Look East interviewing an Englishman about being fined for obeying the law is meat and drink .. Perhaps the Wail would be a good channel… after all we all know how they hate the UE..
 

Boz

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MMmm I've been using a 20ltr can up to now but you've put doubt in my mind and I'll have to be more furtive in future. At the end of the day, they can't put it back :) .... I suppose they can confiscate it.... but....
with a 160 litre tank in the boat that's a lot of diesel to hump about at least for KOS like me....
 
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Boz

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Actually one needs to get it onto the TV or local radio.

Politicians only react to publicity. A reporter from Look East interviewing an Englishman about being fined for obeying the law is meat and drink .. Perhaps the Wail would be a good channel… after all we all know how they hate the UE..
Maybe we could start one of those online petitions, or bombard Nigel Farage with emails
 

BoyBlue49

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Very difficult to get white diesel in cans from British garages because erroneously (according to Ipswich trading standards) they will only allow you to have 2 gallons in a can, unless you can find a "pay at pump" at the dead of night! Reported this to Shell and the RYA but they didn't think it was an issue, but they were not fined in Ostende were they?
Petrol is restricted to 2 gallons in one can, for storeage or carriage.

Diesel cans are not restricted.

Use another garage.

( Ex licencee of three garages, 2 Esso, 1 Total)
 

tillergirl

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Actually one needs to get it onto the TV or local radio.

Politicians only react to publicity. A reporter from Look East interviewing an Englishman about being fined for obeying the law is meat and drink .. Perhaps the Wail would be a good channel… after all we all know how they hate the UE..
But we are not obeying the 'law'. In the EU, marked diesel can only be used by those entitled to the tax discount. There is no provision in the regulations for the UK concession (required for all the reasons that have already been amply discussed) which is why the receipt you get for red diesel spells out that you are only able to use red diesel in UK waters.
 

Koeketiene

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Just a heads up, a friend of our was in Ostende about 2 weeks ago. He was the only UK boat there.

Had the usual visit from customs - then they asked about what diesel was in his tanks, he then produced the receipt but it didn't make any difference. Fined for having red diesel.

500 Euro fine + tankage.

New finance minister apparently and is very anti red diesel usage. They even fined two Belgian yachts with red in their tanks.

Where in Ostend (which marina) was your friend?
Contacted the RNSYC HM jut now and he can not confirm the story.
 

Bru

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Very difficult to get white diesel in cans from British garages because erroneously (according to Ipswich trading standards) they will only allow you to have 2 gallons in a can, unless you can find a "pay at pump" at the dead of night! Reported this to Shell and the RYA but they didn't think it was an issue, but they were not fined in Ostende were they?
Petrol is restricted to 2 gallons in one can, for storeage or carriage.

Diesel cans are not restricted.

Use another garage.

( Ex licencee of three garages, 2 Esso, 1 Total)
When was that because you're well out of date

I have to explain this one about one a year on average

The legal framework is the legislation under which retailers are licensed to sell petroleum products which, in this context, includes diesel (don't argue, it just does!)

The licence is issued by the regional Petroleum Officer however his enforcement functions are delegated to Trading Standards

Until around 1990 or so, each licence was unique to the individual site with significant variations in the site conditions. BP, Shell, Trading Standards and the London Fire Brigade got together and agreed a standard Licence pro forma which is now the default for most (but not all) forecourts unless specific site conditions apply or the operators request a variation

Now to the point in question...

The standard licence conditions stipulate that petroleum (Inc. Diesel, see above!) can only be dispensed into EN or UN approved containers manufactured and marked for the purpose

The conditions set a maximum of...

2 x 5l plastic containers
OR
2x 10l metal containers
OR
1 x 20l metal container

There are no gallons involved!

You can also legally fill manufacturer supplied portable equipment fuel tanks up to about 30 litres but I've forgotten the exact amount

Bizarrely, it is perfectly legal to make and sell 10 and 20 litre plastic containers for diesel and perfectly legal to use them but it's illegal for a forecourt operator with a standard licence to permit them to be filled

A further complication arises due to internal company policy. I can only speak for BP but due to the difficulty faced by staff in identifying containers their policy is that containers must also be screw top and not "jerry" type cans

(Because you cannot see whether the can has the required locking pin to meet UN approval from the till and it's not always practical for a member of staff to go and check it out)

Of course, the degree to which the licence conditions are applied varies from forecourt to forecourt aThe legal framework is the legislative under which retailers are licensed to sell petroleum products which, in this context, includes diesel (don't argue, it just does!)

The licence is issued by the regional Petroleum Officer however his enforcement functions are delegated to Trading Standards

Until around 1990 or so, each licence was unique to the individual site with significant variations in the site conditions. BP, Shell, Trading Standards and the London Fire Brigade got together and agreed a standard Licence pro forma which is now the default for all forecourts unless specific site conditions apply or the operators request a variation

Now to the point in question...

The standard licence conditions stipulate that petroleum (Inc. Diesel, see above!) can only be dispensed into EN or UN approved containers manufactured and marked for the purpose

The conditions set a maximum of...

2 x 5l plastic containers
OR
2x 10l metal containers
OR
1 x 20l metal container

Bizarrely, it is perfectly legal to make and sell 10 and 20 litre containers for diesel and perfectly legal to use them but it's illegal for a forecourt operator with a standard licence to permit them to be filled

A further complication arises due to internal company policy. I can only speak for BP but due to the difficulty faced by staff in identifying containers their policy is that containers must also be screw top and not "jerry" type cans

(Because you cannot see whether the can has the required locking pin to meet UN approval from the till and it's not always practical for a member of staff to go and check it out)

Of course, the degree to which the rules are applied varies from site to site and unmanned sites are always handy
 

sailorman

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I too would like to know, I'm been planning a trip to Holland for months :(
We have been in the Netherlands for five weeks and have yet to see an official of any sort. I have three receipts for Dutch white at €`1,3 a ltr or £0,90.it is as you will see, cheaper than our red. Take no notice from those who don't know.
 

sailorman

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The cloggies manage with bio and have done there past ten ➕ yrs.
Some Brits get too far under the bonnet
Ps, the cloggies are still able to buy seaqueen too but most of us are too stupid to be allowed to.
 
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Tomahawk

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When I was in France a couple of years ago, the fuel in the marina cost an arm and a leg.. so I walked down to the supermarket and borrowed a trolly, then I fetched four by 30 litre plastic cans and took them back to the supermarket self service.. and filled them and took them back to the boat on the shopping trolly.. Jolly hard work but it saved a fortune.
 
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