Orca attack

Spanjaard

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It’s just common sense.
Have you asked the Spanish sailing authority yet, and what was their reply? Not answered that question yet.
Bans. No sailing from here to there (hundres of miles) for 4 weeks. Another attack: repeat the process. Another sailing prohibition.

Pathetic response. I wonder if the Spanish Premier is in direct contact with the RYA. That might explain.
 

Beneteau381

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Bans. No sailing from here to there (hundres of miles) for 4 weeks. Another attack: repeat the process. Another sailing prohibition.

Pathetic response. I wonder if the Spanish Premier is in direct contact with the RYA. That might explain.
From the RYA today:
Dear Mr Davies,
Thank you for your email.
I am sorry that you did not find our telephone conversation helpful, that was not my intention.
With respect to your point concerning provision of information to RYA members involved in an incident with Orcas/ Killer Whales, the RYA has provided advice on our website. The guidance addresses both the safety of boaters and the protection of the orcas. It aims to reduce the impact of an incident on boat and crew as well as the legal aspects. Here is the link to the RYA guidance on this issue: https://www.rya.org.uk/news/revised-orca-guidelines
You also asked about the availability of maps showing locations of orca incidents. The Atlantic Orca Working Group has compiled and mapped a database for 2021 here: Last interactions | Orca iberica.
As I stated in the phone call, please let me know if you think there is a need for any additional information that the RYA could provide. It should, however, be noted that the Atlantic Orca Working Group is the lead organisation with responsibility, not the RYA. We are assisting by providing guidance to members leaving UK on passage through the area. You will see from the RYA website, that we link to the information provided by the Atlantic Orca Working Group and have co-ordinated with them, although our guidance is focused more on safety. I understand that the Group also has data for 2020.
The RYA is not aware that any of the recorded incidents in 2020 and 2021 have resulted in a sinking nor a direct attack on a person. We have been advised that there is no record of an attack being carried out by an orca on a person in the wild. Internationally, we are only aware of two incidents that resulted in sinkings. These took place in the 1970s and appear to have been accidental rather than due to a deliberate attack.
I understand from our call that you may have links to recreational sailors in the area who have concerns. If this is via a club or association, it may be useful for either ourselves or the Atlantic Orca Working Group to contact them directly to make recreational users aware of the existing guidance for craft in the area or on passage from UK.
I would be interested in hearing further about your suggestion concerning reversing a craft’s engine when approached by an Orca. I note, however, that under Spanish law (similar for the UK, France and Portugal) it is an offence to cause death, injury or disturbance to a whale or dolphin (Article 4, Royal decree 1727/2007- BOE.es - BOE-A-2008-516 Real Decreto 1727/2007, de 21 de diciembre, por el que se establecen medidas de protección de los cetáceos.). I note that the Atlantic Orca Working Group has provided a useful guide on how to interpret the law whilst sailing in company with cetaceans (whales and dolphins): Regulation in Spain | Orca iberica
In developing our safety orientated guidance, the RYA are working on behalf of our membership to safeguard boat users from any legal liability due to an ill-considered action. Given the information provided by the Atlantic Orca Working Group and from our members, that have been involved in incidents, our guidance is proportionate and in-line with legislation.
Yours sincerely,

Richard Hill
Planning and Environment Officer
Royal Yachting Association
Tel: 023 8060 4228 E: richard.hill@rya.org.uk
RYA House, Ensign Way, Hamble, Southampton, Hampshire, SO31 4YA
www.rya.org.uk T: 02380 604100 F: 02380 604299
 

greeny

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So they offer no help in collating data or formulating advice. They are merely cutting a and pasting what other organisations are suggesting and we know that advice does not work. Reversing will be the tactic of choice for me. As long as the authorities are not nearby and watching. I wouldn't want to get caught breaking the law would I. :)
 

sailaboutvic

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I love this bit
" note, however, that under Spanish law (similar for the UK, France and Portugal) it is an offence to cause death, injury or disturbance to a whale or dolphin (Article 4, Royal decree 1727/2007"
I think he left out a very important word ( deliberately)
If an Orca injury it self while playing,Attacking a boat I think it be very hard to accused a skipper of an offence .
 

sailaboutvic

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Beneteau your wasting your time even communicating with them again ,
they not interested.
Best you can do stop suppose them with your money ,which I did 10 years ago,
 

Beneteau381

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So they offer no help in collating data or formulating advice. They are merely cutting a and pasting what other organisations are suggesting and we know that advice does not work. Reversing will be the tactic of choice for me. As long as the authorities are not nearby and watching. I wouldn't want to get caught breaking the law would I. :)
I am going to compose a suitable reply along the lines of rude obnoxious and didnt let me speak.
 

dunedin

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So they offer no help in collating data or formulating advice. They are merely cutting a and pasting what other organisations are suggesting and we know that advice does not work. Reversing will be the tactic of choice for me. As long as the authorities are not nearby and watching. I wouldn't want to get caught breaking the law would I. :)
Why would the RYA “collate data“ on this when that job is being done by the Atlantic Orca Working Group? Also this being published by a variety of more local sources - such as 2021 by months | Orca iberica. Surely don’t want to duplicate effort.
 

Mistroma

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I love this bit
" note, however, that under Spanish law (similar for the UK, France and Portugal) it is an offence to cause death, injury or disturbance to a whale or dolphin (Article 4, Royal decree 1727/2007"
I think he left out a very important word ( deliberately)
If an Orca injury it self while playing,Attacking a boat I think it be very hard to accused a skipper of an offence .
I must say that this was my very first thought as well on reaching that statement. I imagined they must be talking about deliberate actions intended to cause harm. It never occurred to me that reversing to stop running over floating rope whilst being hit by Orcas would be a criminal offence. I'd just be preserving my ability to control the boat and doing my best to avoid and get away from any Orca. It isn't as if I'm dragging around huge nets with the risk of drowning them.

I'd expect a prosecution if I repeatedly charged an Orca and followed it with intent to cause injury. I strongly suspect that any injury would be one-sided and not in my favour. Surviving long enough to be prosecuted would probably be a good outcome in my eyes.
 

greeny

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Why would the RYA “collate data“ on this when that job is being done by the Atlantic Orca Working Group? Also this being published by a variety of more local sources - such as 2021 by months | Orca iberica. Surely don’t want to duplicate effort.



Because their published aim is "A group of people looking for the conservation and management of an endangered subpopulation of killer whales in the Iberian peninsula"
No mention of protection of sailors. Their concerns are different to mine. They are still asking us to drop sails and turn off the engine when we know this does not work.
Yes it's a good list of Orca interactions but there is no mention of real solutions other than banning boats in certain areas when the orcas are about.
No mention of reversing or any other tactic, I suspect because an orca may get hurt. No mention of the pingers that are yet to be tested. Why? because they have no interest in sailors.
The behaviour has been spreading for 2 years now. When it has spread to the point where all leisure sailing is banned from the Iberian Atlantic coast throughout summer I don't think they will have any qualms about supporting that restriction.
We need someone to be on our side and fight our corner. Better to try and get that someone on our side now, than wait until the restrictions are in place.
 

Mistroma

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I was surprised to see two incidents reported fairly recently in Biscay and in the Med.

1) 23rd July approx. 3nm offshore under 10nm from the entrance at Arcachon.
2) 31st August approx. 10nm from Estepona.

Certainly very large area and now in the Med. as well as Biscay. I wonder if these will remain isolated incidents.
 

Laser_310

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i'm not sure why anyone would think RYA would have a solution to this problem.

but i would certainly not be surprised to learn that sailors are employing much more creative strategies in the heat of combat, than ever get mentioned online...
 

sailaboutvic

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i'm not sure why anyone would think RYA would have a solution to this problem.

but i would certainly not be surprised to learn that sailors are employing much more creative strategies in the heat of combat, than ever get mentioned online...
Not sure what more as boat owners we can do , these are very big creatures weight more then our boats in many cases .
I seen a video of one of the skippers talking about his experience and playing it down,
I lay money he wasn't that cool when his rudder was being rip of.
There been lots of talk about razer wire and electric pod but it talk and nothing else ,
The only thing that's been seen to have some effect is going astern,
Be interested to see if there more report of this working.

What I find disturbing about the RYA reply is they keep pushing the point that nothing should be done that can endanger them,
What's being done to stop them endanger human life,
Because as day follow night if this carrier on some one will get hurt if not killed .
 

nortada

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Really hoping to hear that the Fishtek banana pingers work.

Sounds as though a few Lagos based boats will soon have them.

- W
The problem will be confirming how effective these pingers are.

There is a need to establish the current percentage of attacks against the number of yacht movements and then see what changes the future brings.

As sailing in Iberia is largely seasonal, this will take time.
 

Beneteau381

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i'm not sure why anyone would think RYA would have a solution to this problem.

but i would certainly not be surprised to learn that sailors are employing much more creative strategies in the heat of combat, than ever get mentioned online...
Didnt ask for a solution, asked for a database of attacks and dates so people could make an informed decision as to when to make passage. I also TRIED to ask about mitigation measures as the existing dont work and got treated to words as in the above email. He would NOT allow me to speak. So not asking RYA for a solution.
 

webcraft

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Fishermen worldwide are renowned for not shall we say being woke? I suspect that evilness is being plotted against these orcas?
Yeah. I reckon you have put your finger on why they have been going for yachts rather than fishing boats. This particular pod may have just messed up big time.

- W
 
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