Optimum Length of Anchor Chain on board

[oldmanofthehills]

As a one time Bristol Channel Sailor I always had 50m in the locker. A 13m tidal range meant that even anchoring in 4m at low tide, a full run of 50m only gave me 3:1 chain to depth at high tide.

However I have now moved my operations to Plymouth and S Cornwall where tidal range is sometimes as little 3m. The Cornish boat came with 30m and I automatically extended it by 20m. However the anchor locker is crowded with 50m of 8mm chain as it only a small 27footer and chain sometimes jambs due to piling up by the pipe. The chain is getting rusty and this winter I wish to replace

I note that in Plymouth Sound I do sometime want to anchor say near Barn Pool in 10m or more of water, so nice to have 50m but my most serious use would be say in shallower but more exposed waters such as around the Isles of Scilly.

What length do others equip their boats with, particularly West Country Sailors?

 

[scruff]

We've now got 75m, and that is just enough on the West Coast.

 

[Carib]

I've never had more than 30m chain. Like you, carrying much more becomes a real issue in a small boat (31 feet) - as you say, storage but also weight in the wrong place. Our last boat, 26 feet, had 30m + 20m nylon spliced on, although cruising quite extensively I can only remember needing the nylon once. It seems rare to need to anchor in more than 10m, typically we find perhaps 5-6m. I'm not sure where the 5:1 scope I've seen cited nowadays comes from (sounding old here..I'm not!) but 3:1 is nearly always sufficient. Places I'd want to carry more would be Scotland and somewhere like Norway, but for the SW I'd say 30m is fine.

 

[Neeves]

Reconsider why you are using 8mm chain. If you were to use 6mm chain it could be well strong enough and as it would take up less room you could carry at least 75m. As you have sacrificed some catenary you will need a decent snubber, think 10mm dynamic climbing rope - say 10m of length.

Obviously if you have a windlass the gypsy will not take 6mm chain - and gypsys being extortionate you will not want to change it - unless you need a new windlass. If you retrieve by hand you might need to join a gym as you will miss the exercise if you do change to 6mm chain.

You will also need to change your idea of sailing as the weight saved, downsizing to 6mm, will reduce the green water you have been taking over the bow.

I continue to marvel at the size (weight) of chain people appear to carry (I know - its usually what the owner inherits). You would not sail hard on the wind with a crew member perched on the bow - but that's the effect of carrying all that chain.

As Carib implies/suggests - an option is a mixed rode - they served for decades (when people could not afford a windlass (nor the chain), nothing has changed - mixed rodes still work.

Jonathan

 

[RJJ]

I would be tempted to go for 30m plus either as much rope as you have room for, or some reliable method of shackling on an extra length of rope when required, up to the max depth you reckon you will need.

I work on the basis that the important part of the chain that weighs down and creates a near-horizontal pull is the bit near the anchor. I would reckon 30m of 8mm is enough for that purpose; so save your money, your back and your sailing performance ?. 50m is a lot to be lugging around in a small yacht.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I would be tempted to go for 30m plus either as much rope as you have room for, or some reliable method of shackling on an extra length of rope when required, up to the max depth you reckon you will need.

I work on the basis that the important part of the chain that weighs down and creates a near-horizontal pull is the bit near the anchor. I would reckon 30m of 8mm is enough for that purpose; so save your money, your back and your sailing performance ?. 50m is a lot to be lugging around in a small yacht.

50m is a lot of weight but LM27s are heavy old things, hardly sprightly and with 50m of chain up for'ard takes little water over the bows.

One problem with rope is that it is bulkier than chain so 30m of chain plus 20m of rope possibly wont fit well either. Chain coils jamming due to piling up by the outlet pipe can cause great anxiety when you need to anchor in a hurry. I guess the boat was designed for the shallower even less tidal Baltic waters so accommodates chain sufficient for that use, where as I want to anchor in the deep rias with effectively under water cliffs (Dart, Fowey etc), but also sit out a F8 or worse in the Scillies

To save my back and indulge me in my old age the boat has a vertical electric winch with gypsy but no plain drum. This is set for 8mm chain not lighter chain as per Jonathon's suggestion and not for rope.

 

[TonyMS]

We swappeded our 8mm grade 30 for 7mm grade 40. Same strength, less space and 30 per cent less weight.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

My 28' er came with 75m of chain! considering she sit's on a 21.5' waterline you can imagine what all that weight in the bow did. I cut it down to 25m and spliced on 60m of octo.
she looks in much better trim now.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

We swappeded our 8mm grade 30 for 7mm grade 40. Same strength, less space and 30 per cent less weight.

7mm might not fit on the gypsy wheel designed for 8mm. Most of the cheaper suppliers of 8mm are out of stock and I havent come across a 7mm supplier yet at a reasonable price yet. Suggestions on the forum are only about 10kg weigh saving on 30m so fairly trivial though it might stop the towering. I will measure the existing

 

[AHoy2]

50m is a lot of weight but LM27s are heavy old things, hardly sprightly and with 50m of chain up for'ard takes little water over the bows.

One problem with rope is that it is bulkier than chain so 30m of chain plus 20m of rope possibly wont fit well either. Chain coils jamming due to piling up by the outlet pipe can cause great anxiety when you need to anchor in a hurry....

I have a Scanyacht 290 variant of the LM27, not certain if the chain locker space is the same but for CI/Brittany sailing I upped the rode from 35m of 8mm chain with the addition of 40m of octoplait - it is a tight fit in the locker! No particular concerns with the additional weight or deployment, however, the length of fall from the winch/hawse pipe is insufficient to prevent the chain from piling up so retrieval of the last 10m or so can be tedious if a chain jam is to be avoided - awkward if single handed in a difficult spot. If it wasn't for the cost of changing the gypsy/windlass I would go for 6mm all chain as suggested earlier. If I need a deployment/recovery option I also carry kedge anchors with a rode of 8m of 8mm chain and 100m of warp, the windlass does have a rope drum.

 

[doug748]

I have 40 and a bit metres of 8mm on a 32ft boat and it's generally fine for the West Country. As Ahoy says, you struggle a bit on springs near the gulf of St Malo, though I only remember once having to shackle on an extra length of rope.

I would see if I could get hold of a 6mm gypsy and go for 50m of that. If you can't, then soldier on with 40 to 50 m of 8mm.

.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I have a Scanyacht 290 variant of the LM27, not certain if the chain locker space is the same but for CI/Brittany sailing I upped the rode from 35m of 8mm chain with the addition of 40m of octoplait - it is a tight fit in the locker! No particular concerns with the additional weight or deployment, however, the length of fall from the winch/hawse pipe is insufficient to prevent the chain from piling up so retrieval of the last 10m or so can be tedious if a chain jam is to be avoided - awkward if single handed in a difficult spot. If it wasn't for the cost of changing the gypsy/windlass I would go for 6mm all chain as suggested earlier. If I need a deployment/recovery option I also carry kedge anchors with a rode of 8m of 8mm chain and 100m of warp, the windlass does have a rope drum.

Thanks for that. seems a very comparable set up so fairly applicable

I do have 10m of chain plus 50 of rope as emergency backup, and though that lives in cockpit the only sensible place to keep my spare big anchor - a slightly oversize 12kg Supreme- is the foredeck. I tried carrying the Supreme forward in rolling sea bad weather and terrified myself and feared to die clutching it as it plunged to the bottom, so there is a limit to how much weight I can save at bows. My issue is thus stowage and cost

 

[Quandary]

Not sure about needing a lot of chain in Scotland, since I started using the excellent Antares charts showing an amazing choice of secure anchorages with great precision and accuracy I have rarely had more than 30m out. Worth far more than an extra 40m. of chain and puts no extra weight in the ends of the boat.

 

[sarabande]

Barn Pool is full of nasty debris, and eats anchors and chains....

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Barn Pool is full of nasty debris, and eats anchors and chains....

Ah but the Edgecumbe Arms is full of beer, and the park nice to walk round. Never had any troubles with debris there so far, and quite a lot of us seem to anchor there without mishap, though getting anchor to grip can be challenging on occasions. Makes a more sheltered jumping of point than Caw Sands and shorter row to the shore

 

[Neeves]

One place to source cheap gypsies would be your boat jumbles. The windlass being sold my be long past their sell by dates but gypsies can soldier on longer than electric motors.

I haver also thought there should be a regular source of old windlass as people up grade, replace. I suspect most go in the bin - again the gypsies would be worth reclaiming. I ddid think there was a business venture in there somewhere - but it went into the too hard basket. When we replaced our 8mm chain with 6mm I did look at trying to source an old gyspy (in Sydney) but many small yachts don't have windlass and even those that do tend to have chain that I would consider far too big (for the boat).

Downsizing chain needs to be something considered when the yacht is commissioned or when you need a new windlass - other wise its an expensive exercise. Though the cost savings for the chain if you are down sizing from 10mm to 8mm might pay for a new gypsy.

Jonathan

 

[Iliade]

If you used just the length of chain of the depth of water in which you typically anchored, with the rest warp, you could hand haul the warp and a few metres of chain with very little effort, providing you had the engine at idle helping, and then transfer the chain to the gypsy for the heavy lift.

Maybe you could try for a gypsy swap in the For Sale and Wanted sections? (That sounds like it should have some alternative meaning...)

 

[oldmanofthehills]

If you used just the length of chain of the depth of water in which you typically anchored, with the rest warp, you could hand haul the warp and a few metres of chain with very little effort, providing you had the engine at idle helping, and then transfer the chain to the gypsy for the heavy lift.

Maybe you could try for a gypsy swap in the For Sale and Wanted sections? (That sounds like it should have some alternative meaning...)

You imagine up anchoring in calm conditions, I imagine a wind shift in F8 and wanting to up anchor and find better shelter. Thus I imagine a heavy pull on anchor chain or warp and a decrepit old sailor frantically trying to get it all in.

I have no idea what make of winch the Danish builders used in 1981 and am not sure of getting new gypsy wheel for it but will investigate. It may also be that the 2mm difference in link length between 7mm chain and 8mm chain has no ill effect as only about 3 links actually press against the cogs on the gypsy, the rest are only partially lined up. I have ordered sample of 7mm from J Green to play with.

 

[Pete7]

You imagine up anchoring in calm conditions, I imagine a wind shift in F8 and wanting to up anchor and find better shelter. Thus I imagine a heavy pull on anchor chain or warp and a decrepit old sailor frantically trying to get it all in.

I have no idea what make of winch the Danish builders used in 1981 and am not sure of getting new gypsy wheel for it but will investigate. It may also be that the 2mm difference in link length between 7mm chain and 8mm chain has no ill effect as only about 3 links actually press against the cogs on the gypsy, the rest are only partially lined up. I have ordered sample of 7mm from J Green to play with.

Be interesting to hear how the 7mm chain works.

6mm would be great if there was a G70 variant but none to be found and I think even Johnathan (Neeves) had to have his specially made. 6mm x G40 seems to have a minimum breaking load of 2.4T on the Jimmy Green website, I think the deck cleats might come out before we reach that. However, the cost of changing out the windlass is the problem and hasn't the price of chain shot up,

 

[Neeves]

There is now available a nominal 6mm galvanised G80 chain. Its made by Gunnebo and their focus is the aquaculture industry. Its not a conventional 'metric' G80 in that to achieve the specification they use oversized wire - so the link is a 6.6mm wire, not a conventional 6mm. The link size is the same as standard 6mm short link chain.

Chain KLZ HDG

I have tried to find out, with no success, if the link would fit on a standard 6mm gypsy. I also asked Maxwell if the link would fit - they declined to pass comment and simply said get a sample and we'll try it.

Gunnebo are also making some recessed pin bow shackles - but the smallest size is 1/2". These are also in the Aquaculture section of their website catalogue. So if you find conventional shanks for your anchor 'bash' your bow roller and you need 1/2" or bigger shackles - they might be an option. For 6mm chain you would need to use their hammerlocks as a connector, for your anchor.

Gunnebo, who are Swedish are well known in the lifting industry (I used their G80 chain to make our new rode) are now owned by Crosby.

I have no idea on cost - but the feedstock for this new line of HDG G8 chain is a special G120 chain - so I cannot believe it is cheap. It is also sold in 100m lengths.

Jonathan