Non lucrative Visa Spain (or France) for marina “residence”?

nortada

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I wonder if that guy was (bsing or) referring to homes in those countries bc in order to get any 1 of those you have to spend 183 days in that country…more if you want citizenship. Math doesnt add up for more than 1 every 5 years (only once also getting citizenship and many countries dont let you hold multiple citizenships…. But perhaps diff in EU) Unless , I guess, if he bought the golden/investment visas in all those countries and maintains them….
Apparently this all happened in the ‘good old days’ before anybody worried too much about what people did. So pitch up at the appointed place, with right bits of paper and that was that. No Schengen 90/180. Watch him do just this in Portugal.

Spent a winter with this guy who was a smooth operator. Like so many, he came he went and that was that. He never gave me any doubt to suspect his veracity.

Suspect this wouldn’t work in this day and age, with much more computers and much more sophisticated tracking.
 

AndersG

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@AndersG @st599 Are either of you residents? What are your sources for that info? Curious

This is so confusing!

How Will ETIAS Affect Foreign Residents in European Countries? | ETIAS for Europe


View attachment 122635
There seems to be some diff info on the internet or maybe differing interpretations.

View attachment 122636
The commercial sites that wants to sell you a visa for more money than doing it yourself tends to point out that you have the right to travel to other Schengen countries and that is correct. As a Schengen resident you cannot for example be asked to prove that you have enough money or a ticket out. What they dont say is that you are bound by 90/180 outside your country. It's difficult to police in reality. If you drive over to Portugal no one is likely to know unless you tell them.
We are not residents. I'm still an EU citizen and my wife who is only a British citizen can travel with me for as long as we want.
 

st599

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@AndersG @st599 Are either of you residents? What are your sources for that info? Curious

This is so confusing!

How Will ETIAS Affect Foreign Residents in European Countries? | ETIAS for Europe



There seems to be some diff info on the internet or maybe differing interpretations.
I'm no longer an EU Citizen, unfortunately.

They're not contradictory - the long-term country visa gives a 3rd Country National access to that country for the time limit stated on the visa, and to Schengen for 90 days in a rolling 180 window. But, as a British Citizen, you already have a visa waiver in place for Schengen.

There's no long term visa or visa waiver available covering all of Schengen. The Schengen agreement only deals with tourism and short term work trips (but only for a limited set of reasons). Longer term visas are country specific, there is no EU-level/pan-EU agreement on those.

As the RYA lawyer said on the Brexit webinar, there's currently no way of replicating the access rights we had without gaining citizenship of an EU country. Hopefully the UK will take up the longer access the EU offered.
 

Sea Devil

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I am resident in France and as others point out whilst I may stay 365 in France I may only spend 90/180 in other EU countries - If I drive to my 2nd home in spain there will be no checks (normally) at the road border so in reality I can stay in Spain as long as I like (unless my passport is checked by Spanish authorities) and when I drive back to France there will be no questions as anyway I am entitled to enter and leave France freely.
When the French were asked how they would monitor people like me crossing into other Schengen countries the reply was 'they expect me to be honourable and obey the law' .
The problem for me comes if I choose to fly to Spain (which is much cheaper than driving) from Paris to Malaga. Then my passport will be stamped and my 90/180 day clock will start...
The above rules apply to 'golden passports' l- long stay visa's etc
 

Goodroaming

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I am resident in France and as others point out whilst I may stay 365 in France I may only spend 90/180 in other EU countries - If I drive to my 2nd home in spain there will be no checks (normally) at the road border so in reality I can stay in Spain as long as I like (unless my passport is checked by Spanish authorities) and when I drive back to France there will be no questions as anyway I am entitled to enter and leave France freely.
When the French were asked how they would monitor people like me crossing into other Schengen countries the reply was 'they expect me to be honourable and obey the law' .
The problem for me comes if I choose to fly to Spain (which is much cheaper than driving) from Paris to Malaga. Then my passport will be stamped and my 90/180 day clock will start...
The above rules apply to 'golden passports' l- long stay visa's etc
Thanks for the clarification and the specifics. Very helpful! Its so frustrating. How long have you been a resident of France? Was it challenging to get their visa? Do you have any tips? I think given the 90/180 we would prioritize France (1st) for the visa and Spain 2nd now, as we would have longer access to the canals, including not rushing the Netherlands(albeit 90 days). The challenge with France is that they seem more strict about the address and we want to ideally liveaboard…
 

nortada

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Thanks for the clarification and the specifics. Very helpful! Its so frustrating. How long have you been a resident of France? Was it challenging to get their visa?
As I understand it, if you have residency in a country, you do not require a visa for that country but I suppose you could get residency for a third country i.e. A British citizen with Spanish residency could get a French long stay visa?

Not too sure of the advantages, if any?
 

Sea Devil

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Thanks for the clarification and the specifics. Very helpful! Its so frustrating. How long have you been a resident of France? Was it challenging to get their visa? Do you have any tips? I think given the 90/180 we would prioritize France (1st) for the visa and Spain 2nd now, as we would have longer access to the canals, including not rushing the Netherlands(albeit 90 days). The challenge with France is that they seem more strict about the address and we want to ideally liveaboard…
There is no problem with being a liveaboard - crossing into Belgium and the Netherlands by boat is probably not checked but if you have a 'control' by their authorities then probably the 90/180 day clock would start running until you returned to France.

I have been been resident in France for around 18 months - Getting a carte de Sejour (French residency) was fairly straightforward - You must have a French address but a marina or mooring will do.... There are some excellent Facebook groups with almost professional guides on how to do this..

The other stuff that goes with it is more challenging - You need a french bank account. Not easy anywhere to open an account these money laundering days... Make French tax returns - but mostly you will pay UK not French income tax but you still must do it, You need to get into the French health system - long winded, you need to change your car to french plates - expensive and long winded, French driving licence - I started that process 18 months ago and have only just been instructed to return my Spanish licence but still no sign of the French licence.

All the above would apply to Spain or the Netherlands and is also pretty long winded in those countries - You can DIY it, as I did, with the help of excellent Facebook groups or you can pay 'hand holders'.... My first French Tax return, I paid an accountant (400euro) to apply for and fill out for me - good investment as it is a minefield with consequences if you get it wrong... If you are retired you can apply for an S1 from the UK and that will make the French NHS system easier to access.

It all sounds like a pain - and it is - nearly all done on line with some physical visits - French officialdom are very helpful and considerate in my experience and if you can go in person it's better than sticking stuff in the post.
 

Sea Devil

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As I understand it, if you have residency in a country, you do not require a visa for that country but I suppose you could get residency for a third country i.e. A British citizen with Spanish residency could get a French long stay visa?

Not too sure of the advantages, if any?
Your residency is a form of visa - mine lasts another 9 years then I may apply for another 10 - virtually guaranteed extensions.
As I posted before - I can stay 365 in France and as it is part of Schengen I can drive across any Schengen frontier and there will (probably) not be any border check but I am on my honour not to exceed the 90/180 days allowed me in all of the EU
 

st599

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Your residency is a form of visa - mine lasts another 9 years then I may apply for another 10 - virtually guaranteed extensions.
As I posted before - I can stay 365 in France and as it is part of Schengen I can drive across any Schengen frontier and there will (probably) not be any border check but I am on my honour not to exceed the 90/180 days allowed me in all of the EU
Does next year's Database roll out not also include accomodation providers like hotels and marinas? I thought I read it did.
 

Sea Devil

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Does next year's Database roll out not also include accomodation providers like hotels and marinas? I thought I read it did.
Yes perhaps you are right - certainly hotels in Spain and France require your passport details when booking a room. Spanish marinas are required to give all boat details daily to the Guardia Civil - and with the roll out of the data base it could become a problem - I was only considering my situation of being a French resident with a 2nd home in Spain - maybe I would stay in a French hotel near the border when driving to or from Spain - thank you for pointing that out
 

Goodroaming

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There is no problem with being a liveaboard - crossing into Belgium and the Netherlands by boat is probably not checked but if you have a 'control' by their authorities then probably the 90/180 day clock would start running until you returned to France.

I have been been resident in France for around 18 months - Getting a carte de Sejour (French residency) was fairly straightforward - You must have a French address but a marina or mooring will do.... There are some excellent Facebook groups with almost professional guides on how to do this..

The other stuff that goes with it is more challenging - You need a french bank account. Not easy anywhere to open an account these money laundering days... Make French tax returns - but mostly you will pay UK not French income tax but you still must do it, You need to get into the French health system - long winded, you need to change your car to french plates - expensive and long winded, French driving licence - I started that process 18 months ago and have only just been instructed to return my Spanish licence but still no sign of the French licence.

All the above would apply to Spain or the Netherlands and is also pretty long winded in those countries - You can DIY it, as I did, with the help of excellent Facebook groups or you can pay 'hand holders'.... My first French Tax return, I paid an accountant (400euro) to apply for and fill out for me - good investment as it is a minefield with consequences if you get it wrong... If you are retired you can apply for an S1 from the UK and that will make the French NHS system easier to access.

It all sounds like a pain - and it is - nearly all done on line with some physical visits - French officialdom are very helpful and considerate in my experience and if you can go in person it's better than sticking stuff in the post.
Thanks for that context. Good idea in hiring an accountant for the tax return- I would be glad to get to that part as it would mean we achieved residency! We’re Canadian tho most of those steps apply to us. I can get through the paperwork (perhaps begrudgingly😂) as long as they dont boot us on the address technicality or living-aboard. We would prob rent somewhere if we had to but the expenses keep climbing -all for the small goal of slow travelling.
 

Sea Devil

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Thanks for that context. Good idea in hiring an accountant for the tax return- I would be glad to get to that part as it would mean we achieved residency! We’re Canadian tho most of those steps apply to us. I can get through the paperwork (perhaps begrudgingly😂) as long as they dont boot us on the address technicality or living-aboard. We would prob rent somewhere if we had to but the expenses keep climbing -all for the small goal of slow travelling.
The requirement is to have an address in France before you begin all this - but that certainly can be a boat address - in a marina or moored on a canal site but clearly it needs to be a place to which mail can be delivered - have a look at this site - H2O | Mooring prices could be a starting place - and they sell boats as well... Probably the most important company in the french canals business
 

billskip

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As I understand it, if you have residency in a country, you do not require a visa for that country but I suppose you could get residency for a third country i.e. A British citizen with Spanish residency could get a French long stay visa?

Not too sure of the advantages, if any?
A British citizen in Spain with a first five year "temporary residence " is not allowed to leave Spain for more than 183 days, if one does they lose their residency rights and have to re apply...
 

nortada

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A British citizen in Spain with a first five year "temporary residence " is not allowed to leave Spain for more than 183 days, if one does they lose their residency rights and have to re apply...
In theory, same is true in Portugal but I, for, one do not intend to test this 183 day requirement.

Yet to meet anybody who has fallen at this fence.
 
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billskip

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The requirement is to have an address in France before you begin all this - but that certainly can be a boat address - in a marina or moored on a canal site but clearly it needs to be a place to which mail can be delivered - have a look at this site - H2O | Mooring prices could be a starting place - and they sell boats as well... Probably the most important company in the french canals business
There seems to be a lot of talk about an address,the address is the beginning and possibly the easiest to obtain, for example my address can be used by anyone provided I trot along to the office with them and sign a document....this is only an address.. getting the required papers to remain in the country is the difficult bit.
 

billskip

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In theory, same is true in Portugal but I, for one do not intend to test this 183 day requirement.

Yet to meet anybody who has fallen at this fence.
Remember you are on mainland...if you have to travel by plane or ferry, maybe even train if crossing borders..it will be a different matter
 

nortada

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Remember you are on mainland...if you have to travel by plane or ferry, maybe even train if crossing borders..it will be a different matter
Don’t follow the mainland implication? When in the Schengen Zone, crossing inland or island boarders should make no difference but I appreciate, provided you remain in Schengen it could be difficult to check where you are and how long you have been there.
 
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