Newbie daysails from Cardiff Bay

[BenMurphy]

Hi all,

Just brought a Hunter Horizon 272 and planning to keep her at Cardiff Bay Yacht Club (currently on the hard there having some work done). I've just take Day Skipper so need to build a bit of experience. Plan is to get the family comfortable with a few sails around the bay, but I'd like to venture out a bit further then. What would you recommend for decent day sails out of Cardiff Bay? I'm thinking 2-3 hours max each way.

Thanks for all your advice!
Ben

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Portishead is a nice easy one, probably better for an overnight stay.

Day sail I would say to pop along to Newport Uskmouth Sailing club, probably the easiest sail navigation wise, up on the tide, wait for it to turn and back down. If it's a weekend pop it on the pontoon and there will be someone to find you a cuppa. (Check the website for mooring instructions Find us by sea – Newport Uskmouth Sailing Club ) Not a huge amount to do or see (shops pubs etc) but you'll not really have time to wonder off before you'll want to head back.

Usual round the Holms, Barry and then the other side of the channel.

 

[BenMurphy]

Portishead is a nice easy one, probably better for an overnight stay.

Day sail I would say to pop along to Newport Uskmouth Sailing club, probably the easiest sail navigation wise, up on the tide, wait for it to turn and back down. If it's a weekend pop it on the pontoon and there will be someone to find you a cuppa. (Check the website for mooring instructions Find us by sea – Newport Uskmouth Sailing Club ) Not a huge amount to do or see (shops pubs etc) but you'll not really have time to wonder off before you'll want to head back.

Usual round the Holms, Barry and then the other side of the channel.

That's great, thanks. Newport Uskmouth sounds like a plan. I'm guessing best to leave 3-4 hours before HW is probably the best window? How would you navigate the grounds i.e. come inshore of the Mid Cardiff and North Cardiff buoys or go out and around?

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Yes get to the Outer Wrach hang a left and follow the drying line up to West Usk (I don't go inside the red Sewer buoys as one of them has piles going out to it), you can cut the corner a bit but check the tide heights but I would say play it safe and follow the channel in for your first time.

Keep an eye out for ships heading in and out.

You can get on and off the pontoons +- 2 HW so time it to suit. If you go on the river pontoon go past the pontoon and turn in at the slipway and then again back down river to the pontoon. If you go into the Pill just don't go past the pontoon as there's a low height, high voltage power cable that runs across (it's on the charts). If you're just tieing up to wait for the tide to turn you'll be fine on either pontoon if there's someone on the one, you can raft as long as your well fendered.

You'll probably have a few eyes on you so came a say hello.

 

[BenMurphy]

Yes get to the Outer Wrach hang a left and follow the drying line up to West Usk (I don't go inside the red Sewer buoys as one of them has piles going out to it), you can cut the corner a bit but check the tide heights but I would say play it safe and follow the channel in for your first time.

Keep an eye out for ships heading in and out.

You can get on and off the pontoons +- 2 HW so time it to suit. If you go on the river pontoon go past the pontoon and turn in at the slipway and then again back down river to the pontoon. If you go into the Pill just don't go past the pontoon as there's a low height, high voltage power cable that runs across (it's on the charts). If you're just tieing up to wait for the tide to turn you'll be fine on either pontoon if there's someone on the one, you can raft as long as your well fendered.

You'll probably have a few eyes on you so came a say hello.

That is hugely helpful, thank you very much! I will certainly pop my head above the pushpit and say hello when I make the trip.

 

[Dutch01527]

Ben

My boat is in Cardiff Bay. The location has some real advantages, large and safe bay for quick practice sails, good infastructure in the clubs and marinas, cheap prices, access to town/bay and good transport links..

There are some limitations and one of the biggest is day sailing options if you are looking to go somewhere (as opposed to just sail around the area) As you are aware the basic rule is to go with the tides at all times.
Going East the only large location is Portishead which is about 3 hours each way so better suited to an overnight stay. Other locations such as Newport dry out to mud with no option to get ashore so if you arrive at high tide you would have to leave quickly to get out.

Going South/West you can get to Watchet ( High Water access) / Porlock Weir (anchor) in 3 to 4 hours and many others but would need to arrive and leave straight away to get back in a day. This is made worse by the tides dictating departure times e.g. high tides today are about 5.00am and 5.00pm so going East for a 6 hour round trip would not be possible unless you were happy leaving at 2.00pm and returning at 8.00pm.

Best option is to gain experience in the Bay and locally around the Islands. Penarth beach is a pleasant lunch time anchor spot or even a dry out spot over low water if you can take the ground. When you are comfortable plan overnight trips, Your yacht club has a cruising group who organise lots of weekend jaunts in company of other people. Getting good oversized anchoring tackle with lots of rode, a windlass, good tender. and a good anchor alarm are especially important in this area.

Lots of fun to be had here but you must learn to work with the tides just as our sailing forefathers did. It took me a while to understand that, now I enjoy the planning.

 

[BenMurphy]

Ben

My boat is in Cardiff Bay. The location has some real advantages, large and safe bay for quick practice sails, good infastructure in the clubs and marinas, cheap prices, access to town/bay and good transport links..

There are some limitations and one of the biggest is day sailing options if you are looking to go somewhere (as opposed to just sail around the area) As you are aware the basic rule is to go with the tides at all times.
Going East the only large location is Portishead which is about 3 hours each way so better suited to an overnight stay. Other locations such as Newport dry out to mud with no option to get ashore so if you arrive at high tide you would have to leave quickly to get out.

Going South/West you can get to Watchet ( High Water access) / Porlock Weir (anchor) in 3 to 4 hours and many others but would need to arrive and leave straight away to get back in a day. This is made worse by the tides dictating departure times e.g. high tides today are about 5.00am and 5.00pm so going East for a 6 hour round trip would not be possible unless you were happy leaving at 2.00pm and returning at 8.00pm.

Best option is to gain experience in the Bay and locally around the Islands. Penarth beach is a pleasant lunch time anchor spot or even a dry out spot over low water if you can take the ground. When you are comfortable plan overnight trips, Your yacht club has a cruising group who organise lots of weekend jaunts in company of other people. Getting good oversized anchoring tackle with lots of rode, a windlass, good tender. and a good anchor alarm are especially important in this area.

Lots of fun to be had here but you must learn to work with the tides just as our sailing forefathers did. It took me a while to understand that, now I enjoy the planning.

Thanks, this is really great advice. My initial objective is just going to be to get some miles under my belt "outside the gate" so Newport sounds like a good first plan, even if I don't get to hang around there for a long time.

I've been told that a quick "lap around the islands" can actually be quite a complex pilotage looking out for the wolves etc. What's your take on this and would you have any advice on what part of the tide would be a good time to attempt it (and what route!)?

 

[Sean Carter]

Ben

A very easy trip is Breaksea and Back. Aim to get to Breaksea at LW (or hour before) and back again. No real navigation problems and a pleasant day sail. Cardiff Yacht Club are planning an extensive Cruise in Company program this year look at their web-site . Cardiff Yacht Club I often Day Sail from CYC and you would be welcome to join me . CBYC have the SWOG. Realistically the Bristol Channel is a great place to sail with little traffic but you always have to go with the tides.

Sean

 

[BenMurphy]

Thanks Sean. So basically out to the concrete cooling tower and back I guess? Is there anywhere around there to drop anchor for a quick cuppa??

Very kind offer of a joint day sail, I may well take you up on it! I’m actually signing up for the first SWOG as I’m a member of CYBC. First one is up to Bristol in May so I’m hoping toget a bit of experience outside of the barrage before then.

Are the CYC cruises for members only or can non-members participate?

Cheers,
Ben

 

[Sean Carter]

Ben

The Breaksea Buoy not the tower. You can anchor but normally I just keep sailing. To Anchor in the Channel you gave to put a lot of chain out and a lot of rope so then have to pull it all back in again, I have 20m chain and up to 100m of rope. The CYC cruises will be open to anyone in Cardiff area.

Sean

 

[Snoopy463]

One thing for a newbie to remember is to respect the marked channels and keep to the correct sides of the cardinals . You mention The Wolves and I know more than one person who were keenly intent on avoiding them and were assiduously looking at the cardinal, only to go the wrong side. They survived!
Never ever cut the corner by the Outer Wrach. Mobos always do it, but they don’t have keels dangling underneath them. Don’t follow anyone. I once followed a much larger yacht, believing his draught to be greater than mine - he had a lifting keel.
If you go to Newport, don’t cut the corner, go around West Usk. You could spend a pleasant 6 hours safely on the mud if you miscalculate.
The main thing is not to fear the channel. Yes the tides are strong but if respected, they are your friends. Keep off the green bits on the chart and you won’t go around. You’ll soon get the hang of it. Enjoy!

 

[38mess]

Keep an eye on the weather wherever you go, especially the wind, it can kick up quite bad especially wind over tide in some places, especially around the islands. A nice couple of hours is out of the barrage down to Barry, anchor in Sully bay for a cuppa and when the Tide turns head back.

 

[BenMurphy]

Keep an eye on the weather wherever you go, especially the wind, it can kick up quite bad especially wind over tide in some places, especially around the islands. A nice couple of hours is out of the barrage down to Barry, anchor in Sully bay for a cuppa and when the Tide turns head back.

Good advice on the wind, thanks! So would you just sail past Sully Island and then anchor as close in as practical whilst the tide turns? Is the holding pretty decent there?

 

[38mess]

Good advice on the wind, thanks! So would you just sail past Sully Island and then anchor as close in as practical whilst the tide turns? Is the holding pretty decent there?

Hi Ben.
What we used to do was sail down around flathome down towards breaksea and when the Tide turns head back as far as Sully Bay, Chuck the hook out, only need a lunch hook, mud mainly. Then about an hour after low water think about heading back. Should be enough water to get back into the locks without sweating too much. Anchor Cardiff side of Barry harbour in Sully bay.
Of course you can go past Sully island close in seaward side, make sure you stay outside the rannie bouy.
But have a look at your charts and work out your course and speed. It cuts up a bit rough around flathome

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Hi Ben.
What I used to do was sail down around flathome down towards breaksea and when the Tide turns head back as far as Sully Bay, Chuck the hook out, only need a lunch hook, mud mainly. Then about an hour after low water think about heading back. Should be enough water to get back into the locks without sweating too much.lock out around two hours before low tide is enough. Anchor Cardiff side of Barry harbour in Sully bay.
Of course you can go past Sully island close in seaward side, make sure you stay outside the rannie bouy.
But have a look at your charts and work out your course and speed. It cuts up a bit rough around flathome

You can anchor inside the entrance of Barry Dock Harbour, by the Barry Yacht Club. Its an easy sail from Cardiff to Barry and back or stay overnight at anchor; Barry docks is hardly used by commercial ship; very unusual to see a ship nowadays. Use the tide to your advantage; its madness to try to go against the tide, unless to are very familiar with the back eddies local knowledge. Its good to get to know people at different clubs to join cruises. The CYC will be organising a number of cruises this year (I will be attending). Newport Uskmouth Sailing Club is very friendly and a nice trip there and back. Trips to the Holms and back is pleasant when the weather is good; can be very choppy the other side of the islands. Trips to Swansea bay and marina are easy and very pleasant on sunny days but much longer trips. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

You can get on pontoon at Newport & Usk but you cant exit thru the power station except by car so best to go there on club days when folk are about. You can even dry out on your bilge keels in Barry Old Harbour just outside the mole and walk ashore for ice creams, though I would get to know boat, drying out and the waters before trying it. That to my mind is more pleasant that anchoring in Barry new harbour and rowing ashore to the breakwater and scrambling over muddy rocks.

 

[38mess]

You can get on pontoon at Newport & Usk but you cant exit thru the power station except by car so best to go there on club days when folk are about. You can even dry out on your bilge keels in Barry Old Harbour just outside the mole and walk ashore for ice creams, though I would get to know boat, drying out and the waters before trying it. That to my mind is more pleasant that anchoring in Barry new harbour and rowing ashore to the breakwater and scrambling over muddy rocks.

r
I would be reluctant to leave my boat for any length of time in Barry old harbour. Reports of vandalism over the years.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I would be reluctant to leave my boat for any length of time in Barry old harbour. Reports of vandalism over the years.

The mobos and sailing dinghies at the back of the harbour near the beach are certainly vulnerable but I would never take a yacht that far in even if I could. Walking ashore in broad daylight from a boat visible to all in the middle of the bay, towards an ice cream seller practically visible from the boat presents less risk, certainly less than chip shop residue thrown onto boats at Ilfracombe harbour

 

[38mess]

The mobos and sailing dinghies at the back of the harbour near the beach are certainly vulnerable but I would never take a yacht that far in even if I could. Walking ashore in broad daylight from a boat visible to all in the middle of the bay, towards an ice cream seller practically visible from the boat presents less risk, certainly less than chip shop residue thrown onto boats at Ilfracombe harbour

Are we talking about the same harbour? It's the one with pier and the old dumped boat graveyard. I know there was a guy refurbishing a biggish boat alongside the pier that was set on fire a few years ago.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Are we talking about the same harbour? It's the one with pier and the old dumped boat graveyard. I know there was a guy refurbishing a biggish boat alongside the pier that was set on fire a few years ago.

Sounds the same, though I was being polite about the boats you described as dumped. Boats can be vandalised anywhere but generally not when owners nearby. We were discussing a 3 or 4 hour stopover just before the mole on falling tide then departure on rising, not a permanent berth. The OP needs places where family can walk or step ashore in the upper Bristol Channel after short voyage, as dinghy accessible places may be unmanageable.