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New to EU .. Med. Looking for 22-24m MY. Pros/Cons of Types?

jointventureII

Active member
Joined
30 Jan 2002
Messages
445
Location
Genoa Italy
If you're going day by day then you will pay extortionate amounts for berthing from June to Sept. Some places offer a small concession (pay for 2 nights, get 1 free) but generally you'll be getting stung.

Perhaps aim to visit places like the French Riviera in the shoulder seasons - end Sept, Oct, Nov and March - April - May time (on a longer term contract), then head away during the peak season. The South of France is nothing special in terms of anchorages. Heading to Corsica, Sardinia, Elba, Sicily through the peak season (I'd recommend southern Sardinia during August which is a chaotic time anywhere) will mean more nights at anchor in places you really want to anchor. Also keep in mind that the lesser frequented Greek islands, most of Sardinia / Corsica / Elba / Sicily, many many towns along the mainland Italian coast and to a degree some in France and Spain too, totally shut down out of season i.e. October to May.

I'd say good winter "hole-ups" for 2-3 months at a time would be Barcelona, Cannes (if you can get in), anywhere from San Remo to Genoa (note that Milan, Turin, ski resorts, Pisa & Florence are only around 2 hours drive from the Ligurian coast which is fantastic in winter), Athens.

As for the boat? Keep it as small as feasible...
 

MapisM

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Joined
11 Mar 2002
Messages
19,573
Just like a Ferretti then😊
On which Ferretti model did you find that?
I can't remember to have seen one where while opening the side door wasn't pushed completely out first, and then laterally, hence restricting the side passage by its whole thickness.
The Alalunga pneumatic door I mentioned, at the push of a button, moved invard by a few cm first, before sliding inside the superstructure.
Absolutely nothing left in the way while opened, neither outside nor inside the saloon.
In fact, you would have wondered where the door is, when fully open - another advantage being that it could be left partially open in any position.
Not to mention the completely silent operation, which in itself was to die for! :cool:
 
D

Deleted User YDKXO

Guest
On which Ferretti model did you find that?
I can't remember to have seen one where while opening the side door wasn't pushed completely out first, and then laterally, hence restricting the side passage by its whole thickness.
The Alalunga pneumatic door I mentioned, at the push of a button, moved invard by a few cm first, before sliding inside the superstructure.
Absolutely nothing left in the way while opened, neither outside nor inside the saloon.
In fact, you would have wondered where the door is, when fully open - another advantage being that it could be left partially open in any position.
Not to mention the completely silent operation, which in itself was to die for! :cool:
Sorry misunderstood. Yes I have an electro pneumatic door on my boat but it pushes outward and slides back next to the superstructure which does indeed restrict passage along the side decks. Didnt realise the door slid inside the superstructure on the Alalunga which is of course a better solution
 

Hurricane

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Joined
11 Nov 2005
Messages
8,300
Location
Sant Carles de la Ràpita
6k / month for moorage?
You don't have to pay those extortionate prices if you stay away from the areas mentioned.
People on here will know that I always say this.
IMO, you have to be a bit out of your mind to pay those prices.
OK - you don't have Spain on your list and you are probably looking for a Med experience rather than a place in the sun to keep your boat.
So you probably wouldn't fit into our strategy.
However, the mooring prices in our part of Spain are SIGNIFICANTLY less than the ones quoted above.
For example, a friend is paying 350 euros per month for a 20m berth (including water and electricity).
That particular deal is a bit extreme but you definitely wouldn't pay much more.
We keep our boat out of those "exclusive" areas - cruising to the more expensive areas for a few weeks at a time.
Our base is mid way between Barcelona and Valencia - making it easy to cross to the Balearic Islands whenever we want.
So, maybe keep the boat in a low cost area and invest in a car as well to touring areas further afield and inland etc.

From a boating perspective based on mainland Spain and cruising to places as required works well for us.
Here's a little video of a pre-Covid cruise from our home base in Sant Carles.
Essentially, beautiful places for a fraction of the costs.


I'm sure you can find places with similar costs.
For example MapisM's home of Carloforte would be about 8000 to 10,000 euros for a 20m annual berth - again probably including electricity and water.
Sorry, I really only know prices for 20m berths.
 

Hooligan

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Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
526
Location
Hampshire
You don't have to pay those extortionate prices if you stay away from the areas mentioned.
People on here will know that I always say this.
IMO, you have to be a bit out of your mind to pay those prices.
OK - you don't have Spain on your list and you are probably looking for a Med experience rather than a place in the sun to keep your boat.
So you probably wouldn't fit into our strategy.
However, the mooring prices in our part of Spain are SIGNIFICANTLY less than the ones quoted above.
For example, a friend is paying 350 euros per month for a 20m berth (including water and electricity).
That particular deal is a bit extreme but you definitely wouldn't pay much more.
We keep our boat out of those "exclusive" areas - cruising to the more expensive areas for a few weeks at a time.
Our base is mid way between Barcelona and Valencia - making it easy to cross to the Balearic Islands whenever we want.
So, maybe keep the boat in a low cost area and invest in a car as well to touring areas further afield and inland etc.

From a boating perspective based on mainland Spain and cruising to places as required works well for us.
Here's a little video of a pre-Covid cruise from our home base in Sant Carles.
Essentially, beautiful places for a fraction of the costs.


I'm sure you can find places with similar costs.
For example MapisM's home of Carloforte would be about 8000 to 10,000 euros for a 20m annual berth - again probably including electricity and water.
Sorry, I really only know prices for 20m berths.
I moved from the Balearics as prices started to get silly. Now based in S Italy and this summer in Greece. To give you an idea - for a 20 m boat an annual contract in Greece Will be circa 8 to 9 k. If you do by the month August will cost you 1350. All Euro. Personally I think it makes no sense at all getting any sort of monthly contract during the summer months if you are planning on moving around. You can always find spaces for a few nights if you want and the only real risk is that a storm blows up and you can’t get into anywhere. That is reasonably rare and I would invest the money ypu save on more chain and a very good anchor.
 

Portofino

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Joined
10 Apr 2011
Messages
9,663
Location
Boat- Western Med
There is also this beauty here https://www.gibianandshark.com/en/brokerage/maiora-24-2/ at 200K Euro ... Would make a great yacht for cruising even for me - sadly any berth over 18mt where I live (french - italian border) would be 20/25K at least so...
Yep ^^^ .
Its the running costs that compress the market down to almost give away prices .

Here‘s another one a Heesen - top build and Aluminium, so no osmosis issues .
Again it’s a ONE owner .
Needs a few cosmetic make overs which imho is good as you ( the women in your life ) can go to town on soft furniture, decor , blinds , floor surface covering- look nice with some laminate floors about .

1985 Heesen 25 m. Power New and Used Boats for Sale -
 

Buccaneer-USA

New member
Joined
23 Jul 2021
Messages
18
Its the running costs that compress the market down to almost give away prices
So, help me out here.

I understand running costs. I understand repair and maintenance cost. I understand the unexpected dammit that just broke cost. The big swing that I see from your postings on this forum and in others is more rich. Just here, people have quoted anywhere between 8000 a month and 350 a month. That’s a huge swing.

I understand I can get the Bloc Book (?) and that will give me some on the spot information about transient mortgage/berthing costs.

I also understand that the entry cost, I. E. The cost of the boat itself, is only a part of the cost of any boat. But holy moly how can I figure out what this is going to cost me, or at least get a reasonable budget in mind?

Is a $350k entry, just the entry?
 

Portofino

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Joined
10 Apr 2011
Messages
9,663
Location
Boat- Western Med
So, help me out here.

I understand running costs. I understand repair and maintenance cost. I understand the unexpected dammit that just broke cost. The big swing that I see from your postings on this forum and in others is more rich. Just here, people have quoted anywhere between 8000 a month and 350 a month. That’s a huge swing.

I understand I can get the Bloc Book (?) and that will give me some on the spot information about transient mortgage/berthing costs.

I also understand that the entry cost, I. E. The cost of the boat itself, is only a part of the cost of any boat. But holy moly how can I figure out what this is going to cost me, or at least get a reasonable budget in mind?

Is a $350k entry, just the entry?
Your problem is gonna be sorting out the wheat from the chaff .They are all presented by the brokers , think reality agents as “ good condition “
Its up to you some how long range to view a few , or ask for virtual tours which might be more realistic especially with Covid theses days , not such a big ask .
A one owner ex family boat is better , less risk imho because the family business has been able to keep up the maintenance.
I would say €100 K per annum would generously cover everything ( except a repower ) .
Any spare which will be just save or roll over into a longer stay in the hot spots and fuel or even hiring a seasonal crew cum lad to look after it while it’s parked up ( you are not using it ) in a cheap place like Croatia , Greece , Turkey or maybe Italy .
Perhaps base it in Portugal the first year / season to get it sorted to your standard?
eg global costs €600 K for the entire project with a view for a return of a portion a the trade in when you are done .

Buy the Hessen @ $235 K spend another $20_30k with a mimi internal cosmetic make over , everything that’s replaceable like floors , seats , curtains, cushions , covers the odd kitchen appliance , mattresses and fresh fenders + sock , lines external covers .
Have the teak professionally cleaned as well .
Running costs as said insurance , fuel , berthing fees , annual lift + anodes + painting , engine services + repairs , replacements anything from $50 - €100 K fuel + berths being the biggest fixed for you with your Med tour plan .

If you want a floating apartment then fund a god forsaken Marina in the arse end of ( plenty about ) nowhere and never move it , or run the geny or run the water maker , turn the anchor winch etc etc .Do not end up buying one of theses btw .

Once you have burned through inc purchase cost your top figure ( I suggested $600 k but only you know in your mind what it’s is ) list the hopefully well maintained/ semi upgraded boat and recover the bulk of the $250- €350 buy in price .

How ever get it wrong , end up with a repower , a hull osmosis issue , a pair of shafts , props , cut less bearing issues , gearbox overhauls , re placing the teak deck then it’s soon goona reach the$600 before you have done many sea miles and seen much .

The idea is a well trodden path btw you just need a big war chest and a little planning re anchorages / marinas and a bit of luck .
Picking the right boat is the hard but crucially important bit .Get that right and it will swing towards the low end of cost expectation, get it unfortunately wrong then it be a money pit .
 

Bouba

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6 Sep 2016
Messages
20,774
Location
SoF
After your long vacation, how are you going to wind it up? When it’s time to return to the U.S. what if you can’t sell your boat? You will incur fees forever. If the market changes, if the economy sinks, then even a give away price may not sell. Have an exit plan, for example a long term boat yard in a less fashionable part of the Med, where you can keep the boat out of the water indefinitely
 

westernman

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23 Sep 2008
Messages
10,108
Location
Costa Brava
After your long vacation, how are you going to wind it up? When it’s time to return to the U.S. what if you can’t sell your boat? You will incur fees forever. If the market changes, if the economy sinks, then even a give away price may not sell. Have an exit plan, for example a long term boat yard in a less fashionable part of the Med, where you can keep the boat out of the water indefinitely
That will be Port Napoleon. Well known for that.

Port Napoléon - Port Adhoc
 

Portofino

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10 Apr 2011
Messages
9,663
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Boat- Western Med
As a kinda side story / info , I once spent a few days in Port Cros ( Google it ) on a little wooden jetty in a 12 M Sunsseker that was well equipped for a family of four , aircon , geny etc .
Next door were a pair of teachers on a23 ft trailer able boat with no Aircon or geny etc .They tow it down for the summer hols and live aboard for the summer .The other side was a big rib .Incredibly they slept in one of those pop up tents on its fore deck .
Folded it up when awake .
I asked them “ how’s it going “ ? They said they go everywhere in Corsica which is 100 miles away , but chose weather windows to suit and gun it @ 35 knots .
About comfort I enquired and they told me they Sometimes at short notice check into a hotel .There is a very posh one on Port Cros btw .All funded by the relative saving running a big rib .
The school teachers mostly dinned out too with the saving running a KAD 32 single tow able boat .

With that in mind moving up a think a few notches theses guys ( sorry folks from the Itama club , as it’s all I know :) ) tour the med in a 38 and 50 .The 50 has all the modern comfort accruements .They do both anchor and hotel it .
Another side issue is the ability to cruise around 30 knots or nigh on 100 miles in 3 hrs .
Also think about the fuel bills and low running costs and wider market when it’s off load time .
Any 40 - 50 ftr could do this , but trad fly bridges are slower .
The concepts from the rib to the 50 ftr Itama are identical in terms of getting about seeing the Med but the running costs a helluva lot less than an aged 20/24 M money pit .

This shows then travelling about in a pair , is this the kinda thing you ( OP ) wanna do ?


 

Portofino

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10 Apr 2011
Messages
9,663
Location
Boat- Western Med
After your long vacation, how are you going to wind it up? When it’s time to return to the U.S. what if you can’t sell your boat? You will incur fees forever. If the market changes, if the economy sinks, then even a give away price may not sell. Have an exit plan, for example a long term boat yard in a less fashionable part of the Med, where you can keep the boat out of the water indefinitely
A lot in fact do end up “ orphans “ .Owners lost interest , ran out of money etc .
This ones been parked up for years , note the almost 1/2 price asking p .
You could drop at least €100 k per side on the motors , recommissioning them , never mind the 1000 L / hr cruising fuel burn or the annual lift out charges €25 K for antifoul + anodes

2002 Mangusta 108 Power New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk

Or take the same dosh to a boat show and sail away with a new 45 ftr which burns 180 L / hr and cost €2.5 K for its annual .
 

westernman

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Joined
23 Sep 2008
Messages
10,108
Location
Costa Brava
A lot in fact do end up “ orphans “ .Owners lost interest , ran out of money etc .
This ones been parked up for years , note the almost 1/2 price asking p .
You could drop at least €100 k per side on the motors , recommissioning them , never mind the 1000 L / hr cruising fuel burn or the annual lift out charges €25 K for antifoul + anodes

2002 Mangusta 108 Power New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk

Or take the same dosh to a boat show and sail away with a new 45 ftr which burns 180 L / hr and cost €2.5 K for its annual .
This other one from the same broker looks well looked after, is cheaper and uses just 40 L/hr.
But won't go very fast.

1988 Bugari 24 Custom Power New and Used Boats for Sale -
 

Portofino

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10 Apr 2011
Messages
9,663
Location
Boat- Western Med
This other one from the same broker looks well looked after, is cheaper and uses just 40 L/hr.
But won't go very fast.

1988 Bugari 24 Custom Power New and Used Boats for Sale -
Now that’s the pick of the crop as a long term liveable holiday boat .
It only reduces the fuel bill though, but seems well maintained for now .The steel hull needs a proper survey but all do able .
Although the planing boats examples could run ( mostly) at D speed without the steel + saltwater worries .
Smaller engines = smaller bills .

I just wonder @ 20/24 M getting in the smaller cosy places as hoc like in the Vids I posted ^^

You would be anchoring off a lot , missing out a bit .It’s nice to just to walk off the passerelle when you like .
Done both the novelty of tendering in wears thin when it’s choppy and you end up with a wet arse , or splashed croissants 🥐 :)
 

Hurricane

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11 Nov 2005
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8,300
Location
Sant Carles de la Ràpita
The big swing that I see from your postings on this forum and in others is more rich. Just here, people have quoted anywhere between 8000 a month and 350 a month. That’s a huge swing.
Absolutely - IMO, it is "beggars belief" that people pay these extreme prices.
In the Med, there are loads of great low cost places.
You don't have to pay those extortionate prices.

On the subject of the boat.
Bouba's point is very real.
You intend only using the boat for 3 years.
So that means that you will have to sell it at the end of that period.
For most of us on here 3 years isn't a long time - we view our boats as lasting longer than that.
So, here's a suggestion.
Why not choose a younger boat that will be more attractive to sell later.
More modern equipment - current(ish) electronics etc.
Maybe set your size requirements down a bit - say a 18m to 20m flybridge boat.
You can still live comfortably on one that size.
As a target, I suggest (say) a Fairline Squadron 58 - there are lots about and several people on this forum own them.
As far as living on board is concerned, a big feature of the Squadron 58 is its laundry room - something that people forget on boats.
I have never owned one but it seems in this case, you could pick one up for 300K/400K and then have something young enough that will sell after 3 years.

Basically, I'm saying that you could lower your expectations and still have a great time in the Med.
 
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