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New to EU .. Med. Looking for 22-24m MY. Pros/Cons of Types?

Buccaneer-USA

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Joined
23 Jul 2021
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18
Hello to all ~
New to the Forum as of 22 July.

I am a San Francisco - USA, 20 yr, USCG 100 Ton Master, power boater (and a dual-Cit - Portugal).
My wife and I are planning a 1-3 year tour of the EU, and are thinking about a 22-24m "live aboard" program that would take us all over the northern Med., 3-6 months per-place, at a time.
I am familiar with American boats that would suit this (older Hatteras, Burger, Broward, Grand Banks; newer Flemming, Ocean Alexander, Outer Reef). I am *not* familiar with EU brands.
We will double-hand the boat, and I want to stay below 24m for all kinds of reasons.
So, before we go jumping in with both feet, what should I be thinking about?
Presume I am a total novice.
Warn me about: windage, fuel costs, maintenance gremlins.
Talk to me about the variages of wooden boats vs. plastic, vs aluminum.
Tell me about how difficult or impossible it will be to find a transient slip in a marina for a 22-24m boat.
Talk me out of this plan, then tell me why you what you would do to make it happen for yourself.
:)
 

jrudge

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4 Dec 2005
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4,832
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Live London, boat Mallorca
24m for most of the med will be fine. The med is used to decent size boats.

Planing boats are mostly plastic. Fairline , princess , Sunseeker , ferreti. Give us some idea of the budget and boat you want.
 

MapisM

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Joined
11 Mar 2002
Messages
19,573
Presume I am a total novice.
Why, if as I understand you actually aren't?
If you are familiar with all the problems of American boats (be them plastic, timber, or whatever - all with their peculiarities), you will find pretty much the same also on European boats.
So don't worry, you will feel at home and will not miss anything in this respect! :p

Talking you out of your plan is easy, at least in economic terms, because as any plan involving boats, it will always cost more than you will budget for it.
But if like myself you are silly enough to ignore that, what I did to make it happen was stop working and start living aboard - almost full time.
Not that this makes any boat a more sensible way to waste money, but at least you enjoy them to the fullest.
And in my experience, most boating bits are more reliable when used regularly , 'cause quite often faults are triggered by the lack, rather than the excess of use. Besides, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, you have more time to take care of maintenance yourself.

Ref. the (very few) other details that you gave us, as jrudge said, size won't be a problem in the Med, but 22-24m is a helluva size to manage for a couple.
In fact, for anyone who doesn't want (and/or can't afford, like myself :giggle:) to move into the fully crewed boat league, my suggestion is always to aim at the smallest boat which is just large enough for your needs, rather than the larger you can afford, 'cause the bigger the boat, the bigger the headaches.
And I put my money where my mouth is, because a few years ago myself and my wife looked at almost 80 different used boats (I kid you not!), mostly within 60 feet, but considering also some larger ones, including an 86' gorgeous (wooden) boat, which could be bought for a very attractive price.
But eventually, some residual sanity prevailed, and we went for a 56' with zero regrets.
But that's me of course - each to their own on this.

Oh, and welcome to the asylum!
 
Last edited:

Portofino

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10 Apr 2011
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9,669
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Boat- Western Med
Your best bet is one of the Italian older brands , timeless style .
San Lorenzo various depending on age , Alalunga do a nice 22 , Canteria d Pisa distinctive style icons , Canados various .
You will have a wider choice , plenty are skipper ( family owned ) maintained, many are dry stored over the winter , the engineering and components are first class thus end up reliable as used buys . Buy a plastic one , avoid wood it will ruin your trips as you will be wearing your maintenance hat every day .

You will be looking at MAN / MTU power packs which there are plentiful agents in the Med . Not many CAT powered at this size over here I am afraid .

Summer school hols ( about 6 weeks in each EU state generally) can get busy in the classic hot spots like Balerics islands , Cote d Azur and N Corsica , but a boat that size can easily anchor ( water makers std ) for days + weeks .
There are many islands to find shelter wind .
The eastern states tend to get cheaper , S Italy , the old former Yugoslavia states , Greece , Turkey,

You as a 3 rd party like U.K. citizens post Brexit should be to benefit from a VAT free boat , again for various reasons plenty of classic Italian 22 M about “ tax not paid “ .
It just means you just have to leave the EU part of the Med every 18 months easily done judging by your planned use .

I wouldn’t buy a so called U.K. big 3 Sunseeker, Princess , or fairline if I was in your shoes , they are more style over substance .
If you prefer that style get a Ferretti brand boat .

Fuel is readily a viable everywhere , less opening hrs during outside the 3 summer months , but some have a phone number .
I have called up at 10 pm and a lad on a peddle bike has opened up 10 mins later .
Plenty of yards about particularly Italy for obvious reasons as it’s 80 % sticking out into the Med .
You will need to keep it ,or factor in suitable international airport access as well .
Another tip might be worth looking at the KLM / North Western route planner .They do a multitude of “city hoppers “ spinning out of Schipol / Amsterdam to just about every other EU airport .
Eg if you wanted to keep it in Corfu , or Venice, you will fly to Amsterdam ( lovely airport as they go ) and connect onwards .

Just to give you a flavour , Loano is one of the better modern infra structures.
Airports Nice , Milan , Torino
Marina di Loano - 2021 All You Need to Know BEFORE You Go (with Photos) - Tripadvisor

There are a myriad of different infrastructure levels , many more like this dotted about .
 

MapisM

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Joined
11 Mar 2002
Messages
19,573
program that would take us all over the northern Med.
I thought to mention earlier but I forgot, and I was now reminded by Portofino's post: why "northern" Med?
The one and only advantage of some N Med areas is that they are better connected with regular flights to just about anywhere.
But in all other respects - coastline, climate (hence season length), food, etc. - some central/southern areas are much better.
In fact, plenty of boaters who keep their boats along the N Med coasts move S for their holidays, but the opposite is unheard of!
Besides, if you are thinking to spend 3-6 months onboard at a time, a not so convenient flight arrangement is much less of an issue.
Of course, if by "northern" you just meant not as far S as Libya and Egypt, I can't argue with that! :giggle:
 

Buccaneer-USA

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Joined
23 Jul 2021
Messages
18
24m for most of the med will be fine. The med is used to decent size boats.

Planing boats are mostly plastic. Fairline , princess , Sunseeker , ferreti. Give us some idea of the budget and boat you want.
20-23 m, late 1980s-1990s boat, decent condition…375-475 USD .???
 

Buccaneer-USA

New member
Joined
23 Jul 2021
Messages
18
Why, if as I understand you actually aren't?
If you are familiar with all the problems of American boats (be them plastic, timber, or whatever - all with their peculiarities), you will find pretty much the same also on European boats.
So don't worry, you will feel at home and will not miss anything in this respect! :p

Talking you out of your plan is easy, at least in economic terms, because as any plan involving boats, it will always cost more than you will budget for it.
But if like myself you are silly enough to ignore that, what I did to make it happen was stop working and start living aboard - almost full time.
Not that this makes any boat a more sensible way to waste money, but at least you enjoy them to the fullest.
And in my experience, most boating bits are more reliable when used regularly , 'cause quite often faults are triggered by the lack, rather than the excess of use. Besides, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, you have more time to take care of maintenance yourself.

Ref. the (very few) other details that you gave us, as jrudge said, size won't be a problem in the Med, but 22-24m is a helluva size to manage for a couple.
In fact, for anyone who doesn't want (and/or can't afford, like myself :giggle:) to move into the fully crewed boat league, my suggestion is always to aim at the smallest boat which is just large enough for your needs, rather than the larger you can afford, 'cause the bigger the boat, the bigger the headaches.
And I put my money where my mouth is, because a few years ago myself and my wife looked at almost 80 different used boats (I kid you not!), mostly within 60 feet, but considering also some larger ones, including an 86' gorgeous (wooden) boat, which could be bought for a very attractive price.
But eventually, some residual sanity prevailed, and we went for a 56' with zero regrets.
But that's me of course - each to their own on this.

Oh, and welcome to the asylum!
Our thinking was … a VIP w/ a double (our friends are couples that like to cuddle) and at least one more state room with twins. A proper dining table for 6 (not a galley dinette), and a comfortable rear deck /fly bridge for al fresco cocktails!
I don’t see a lot of stabilized boats, and would like that .. a lot.

We’ve a 50 FTC now (no thrusters), and believe we’d be ok up to70 (with thrusters).

And, yes, my wife has brought up the live aboard idea. 3 times!
 

Buccaneer-USA

New member
Joined
23 Jul 2021
Messages
18
Alalunga do a nice 22 ,




You as a 3 rd party like U.K. citizens post Brexit should be to benefit from a VAT free boat , again for various reasons plenty of classic Italian 22 M about “ tax not paid “ .
It just means you just have to leave the EU part of the Med every 18 months easily done judging by your planned use .
I’d like more info on Alalunga.

How long out for every 18 months?
 

Portofino

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Location
Boat- Western Med
They are extremely well built , here is a one family owner example like I said , fully maintained so you will act like a custodian just looking after it for the next generation ,but like a Patek Philipe watch .

Some others as well close seconds . You have not given a price point , but any of theses will provide a home from home in the 20-24 M bracket and not fall to bits .
ALALUNGA 70 HT Used Boat for Sale 2000


1993 Maiora 23 Motor Yacht for sale - YachtWorld

1996 Sanlorenzo 62 Motore Barca in vendita - www.yachtworld.it

Cantieri di Pisa Akhir 23 Used Boat for Sale 1988

Tax break Q = There is not a time limit .Most just stay out for a few days if that keep receipts take time logged pics etc .
If you are around Greece it’s Turkey to go to a great destination on its own , Italy across the Adriatic to one of the ex Yugoslavian states , Croatia is popular again in its own right to cruise and indeed stay .
Spain or Balearics , then they go to N Africa , which you might want to see anyhow Eg Tunisia .
 

Hurricane

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11 Nov 2005
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8,300
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Sant Carles de la Ràpita
The boat is one issue - 18 months inside the EU at a time (just one day out of the EU to reset).
But what about yourselves - you say that you want to "live aboard".
Just like the UK, you would be limited to 90 days in any 180 days.
Maybe some kind of visa but, we in the UK, are looking for something like that as well.
It will be interesting to hear how that problem is overcome.
 

Hurricane

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11 Nov 2005
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8,300
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Sant Carles de la Ràpita
Ref. the (very few) other details that you gave us, as jrudge said, size won't be a problem in the Med, but 22-24m is a helluva size to manage for a couple.
Yep P - agreed but IMO, the bigger they are - the easier they are to handle.
Ours is a tad bigger than 20m and I would certainly consider something bigger if we were looking.
My limit would be at 24m but at that size, it is getting close to needing a crew.
But 20m is certainly big enough to "live aboard" comfortable.
In the past, I have spent most of the summers on board.

Our Princess 67 is a bit of an "odd ball".
She is the size of boat that you would expect to have 4 cabins (plus crew cabin) but she only has 3 cabins.
That means that all the cabins are huge - each with its own bathroom and loads of space for things like clothes washing machines etc.
Believe me, when living aboard, a utility room or somewhere to the the mundane jobs takes living on boats from just "camping" to like "living in an apartment".
 

MapisM

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Messages
19,573
Yep P - agreed but IMO, the bigger they are - the easier they are to handle.
Ours is a tad bigger than 20m and I would certainly consider something bigger if we were looking.
My limit would be at 24m but at that size, it is getting close to needing a crew.
But 20m is certainly big enough to "live aboard" comfortable.
In the past, I have spent most of the summers on board.
Of course there's a high degree of personal preference on all that, M.

Boat handling had absolutely nothing to see with my preference for something smaller, anyway.
Not from the helmsman viewpoint, at least - more so for the deck hand, though.
It's rather the overall housekeeping of the bloody thing that grows with size, and which takes your time day in, day out.
Now, I know that you enjoy that as a pastime (your DIY covers and teak replacement are just two examples that spring to mind), and you have all my respect for that. But that just doesn't happen to be true for myself, nor for S... :giggle:

In fact, our previous 16m timber boat where we actually started living aboard, and did for almost a decade, has always been large and comfortable enough for our needs. The reason why we later downgraded to a 17m plastic fantastic is mostly (and I'm tempted to say strictly) to reduce the maintenance needs.

Mind, we obviously like the amenities that a 24m boat can offer - who wouldn't !?
But taking care of her ourselves alone, 24/7?
No thanks, I'd rather give up boating, and I kid you not.
 

Bouba

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SoF
They are extremely well built , here is a one family owner example like I said , fully maintained so you will act like a custodian just looking after it for the next generation ,but like a Patek Philipe watch .

Some others as well close seconds . You have not given a price point , but any of theses will provide a home from home in the 20-24 M bracket and not fall to bits .
ALALUNGA 70 HT Used Boat for Sale 2000


1993 Maiora 23 Motor Yacht for sale - YachtWorld

1996 Sanlorenzo 62 Motore Barca in vendita - www.yachtworld.it

Cantieri di Pisa Akhir 23 Used Boat for Sale 1988

Tax break Q = There is not a time limit .Most just stay out for a few days if that keep receipts take time logged pics etc .
If you are around Greece it’s Turkey to go to a great destination on its own , Italy across the Adriatic to one of the ex Yugoslavian states , Croatia is popular again in its own right to cruise and indeed stay .
Spain or Balearics , then they go to N Africa , which you might want to see anyhow Eg Tunisia .
I like that Alalunga as well. Same owner and crew since new, amazing. Berth available. I’ve never heard of the brand before but she looks wonderful
 

MapisM

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11 Mar 2002
Messages
19,573
I’ve never heard of the brand before
That's a confession you shouldn't make on a boating forum, J.
Just google for Mario Spertini (the founder - RIP): he's up there with a few other men who shaped the pleasure boat industry as we know it today.
BTW, Alalunga is "only" the brand that made the boats famous, but the original yard was called Santa Margherita.
 
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