Navionics, chart plotter, boat app, OpenCPN - help!

Chae_73

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Hi all

As mentioned elsewhere, I'm returning to sailing after 30 years away.

Last navigation aids I've used were paper charts and a Decca receiver. So I've been attempting to understand the modern world of GPS and electronic charts. The boat we are buying comes with the original (33 year old) wind, speed and depth instruments, which appear to work . It has an AIS receiver, fairly old looking chart plotter with out of date charts, and obviously a VHF radio.

So:
option A: leave all the above in place, buy a tablet, use the Boat App, job done?
option B: as above but update the existing chart plotter charts as well (back up system)
option C: option A plus new chart plotter and new Navionics chart(s)

I take it that there is no transfer between Boat App and chart plotter charts, so I have to buy these files separately if I want up-to-date charts on a tablet / phone as well as on a chart plotter?

Also - what is the difference in data source and usability between Navionics Boat App and OpenCPN?

Also - should I consider replacing the AIS receiver with a transponder and connecting to the VHF?

Do people still commonly use paper charts? Or electronic charts plus pilotage guides?

Apologies for all the questions and tanks in advance. I'm also trying to educate myself via YouTube tutorials...
 

differentroads

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My 40 year old boat came with similar nav instruments, except a fixed GPS set rather than a plotter. Here's how I upgraded in the past 8 years and how it served me for 4,000nm of cruising.

I bought a 10'' screen tablet (Samsung Galaxy Tab A10) and installed Navionics. Its mounted at the nav table with a mount also on the compass binnacle which I use rarely. This does the job very well except the screen is difficult to see in sunlight and the tablet shuts down if it overheats from the sun. I have a scond A10 as backup plus Navionics running on my phone and my wife's phone. They all synchronise waypoints, routes etc from one account. I can't see myself replacing this arrangement with a chart plotter because one with a 9'' or 10'' screen is too expensive, charts for my cruising area would cost over £300 compared to Navionics £36 per year and chart updates are too fiddly to be done regularly.

I have Open CPN on a laptop but rarely use it. I like it for the raster charts but I have them on paper anyway, so use Navionics vector charts plus paper charts for passage planning. I find it a little faster and easier than OpenCPN for planning and on-passage nav but I dare say that's down to familiarity. Its using a laptop in the boat that disbars OpenCPN for me because a 10'' tablet is so much more flexible and, in a protective Otterbox, more robust. I understand that OpenCPN can be used on tablets but Navionics does the job just fine, so I don't need to look into it.

Navionics produce updates daily which are downloaded over wifi, the cost being included in your subscription. Updating Open CPN charts is more complicated, depending on the source of your charts. Updating the charts that I bought from the otherwise excellent VistMyHarbour defeated me. My Dutch charts of the Med updated fine in the first year but I've not tried since.

I replaced my NASA AIS receiver with a Vesper AIS receiver for better functionality. I wish I'd bought a transceiver instead but Offbeat came with a SeaMe radar transponder which gets me onto the screens of ships, which is what counts. I have managed to get AIS info from the Vesper to Navionics on my tablet through a borrowed NMEA wifi converter. Nice to have but a long way down my priority list for my limited budget.

I replaced the original 40 year old Sailor VHF with an Icom DSC one with an extension microphone at the helm. This proved a good move. The VHF hooks up to the AIS set so I can select a target on that screen and ping an mmsi call to them. I've only used this at sea a few times and no ship has responded, even if they do so to a voice call on ch16. I'm not convinced that function is as useful as I thought it would be.

Bottom line. Navionics is my main nav tool, supported by paper charts (I practice position fixes and course to steer on occasional electronics-free days). I also put in key passage waypoints on my GPS set as this feeds my autopilot and cockpit display of course and speed over ground, bearing to waypoint, cross track error etc.
 

Chae_73

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Thank you for such a detailed reply. Looks like I will go with tablet and Navionics at least to start with.

Will also look at AIS and VHF upgrade; the only radar equipment on the boat is one of those fender like "reflectors" half way up the mast.
 

differentroads

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RichardS. Exactly what I wish I'd done.

I bought a Vesper AIS receiver with a screen because I like functions to be seperate. A few hundred quid more would have got a transceiver with wifi.

My own best bet now would be to buy a black box transceiver with those functions built in and sell the Vesper receiver. I could then see AIS info on my tablets and phones.

That said, the Vesper screen is the screen we monitor most often, so I'd miss that. I don't have the tablet at the helm except when its needed for close quarters pilotage. I've seen my wife helming 'head down' at the screen too often, losing her 'heads up' situational awareness of the real world. I'm sure I do the same ? But a glance at Navionics with AIS info on a phone screen would do the trick
 

FlyingGoose

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Open cpn on tablet at the pedestal, I made my own stand for this via stainless tubing and corner sections ,
Open cpn on computer down stairs use a 12v converter to 19v
Open cpn on wifes phone and My phone, digital yatch nomad ais which sets up a network which all devices can pick up
New Dsc vhf. And nasa instruments
Issues .. strong light on screen , we use a dedicated sun cover which helps
Raster charts are digitised on cpn so looks good, can also allows other chart formats in my case Antares charts for Scotland
Paper charts already on the boat when I got here great for passage planning and browsing
I have no experience with other map sources so cannot compare but extremely happy with my set up does everything we need

We also use pilotage books in scotland the clyde cruising guides are fantastic
 
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Andrew_Trayfoot

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I have not used my paper charts once this season, but would always have up to date (ish) charts for the area I cruse. The Admarility Small Craft folios are very good value.

Regarding plotter. Navionics on a tablet is excellent, and pretty good value for money.

Have a look at my other postings if you want to see a better 12v solution than a tablet using an Andoid car radio.

I have looked at Open CPN, but it looks clunky compared to Navionics (others will have a different opinion). To get the same level of chart coverage as Navionics is I think more expansive and complicated.

Re instruments: If they work I would stick with them for a season or two.

Andrew
 

GHA

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I have looked at Open CPN, but it looks clunky compared to Navionics (others will have a different opinion). To get the same level of chart coverage as Navionics is I think more expansive and complicated.
Bearing in mind comparing navionics to Opencpn is like comparing some really simple picture app to photoshop. Opencpn isn't so much 'clunky' as extremely powerful with masses of features.
But navionics will still get you to where you're going if you just want something simple.
Charts aren't that expensive for opencpn plus displaying satellite images as charts can be gold dust sometimes.
 

Chae_73

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I notice that B&G make a VHF which has GPS and AIS transponder integrated. Ok, it's £900 so a very expensive VHF (I need to replace the VHF anyway so knock off £150)

Is this a bad idea or reasonable idea: B&G expensive VHF with AIS and GPS, either a dumb chart plotter or a GPS enabled chart plotter to have a second boat powered GPS available, WiFi bridge and tablet with Navionics?

That's all about £2.5k but does seem to tick a lot of boxes and offer a good level of redundancy. Thoughts?
 

Sandy

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I have a ancient Garmin chart plotter at the wheel loaded with charts that are 10 years old. Navionics now want a small fortune to update the UK charts I have. The chart plotter is used as a data collection tool and information display, wind, water and navigation stuff.

I now use NV Charts, they come in paper and online and cover the south coast of the UK, the Med, the Baltic, the Atlantic and some of the Caribbean. I like their "atlas" format and the updates I get online.

My primary navigation tool is paper, pencil and a Breton plotter. From time to time I get the sextant out on coastal passages.

I have a Vesper AIS and only look at it if I want to know what that big ship is over there. It is there so that family and the CG know where I am.

Sadly, most people don't have a clue about the amazing stuff DSC can do.
 

differentroads

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I notice that B&G make a VHF which has GPS and AIS transponder integrated. Ok, it's £900 so a very expensive VHF (I need to replace the VHF anyway so knock off £150)

Is this a bad idea or reasonable idea: B&G expensive VHF with AIS and GPS, either a dumb chart plotter or a GPS enabled chart plotter to have a second boat powered GPS available, WiFi bridge and tablet with Navionics?

That's all about £2.5k but does seem to tick a lot of boxes and offer a good level of redundancy. Thoughts?
The B&G VHF with AIS transceiver has, to my mind, two small advantages and three bigger disadvantages.
The advantages are easier installation and being able to select an AIS target on the screen and send an mmsi to that vessel to talk to them. It took me ages to configure my Icom VHF and Vesper AIS to do this. No ship has ever answered an mmsi from me, mind you, whereas almost all answer a VHF voice call promptly and professionally.

The disadvantages are the risk of losing two facilities if one goes down (I prefer seperate kit for that reason); the tiny AIS screen (mine is four times as big and that helps locate other vessels and digest the AIS info about them); and the exhorbitant cost.
 

differentroads

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...being able to select an AIS target on the screen and send an mmsi to that vessel to talk to them. It took me ages to configure my Icom VHF and Vesper AIS to do this. No ship has ever answered an mmsi from me, mind you...
By mmsi I mean a DSC call using there mmsi number that the AIS shows.
I still don't know if I still haven't configured it right or if ships ignore DSC. They seem to call each other, and get called by VTS stations, by voice on 16
 

Ningaloo

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My recommendation would be the lower cost H50(?) Model from B&G which svb-24.com has on offer at the moment. This is an outgoing model which does not have a transponder (receiver only) but is great value.
Then get an ais transponder with splitter.

This should be less expensive and gives redundancy although thinking about the cost of a transponder and splitter, the integrated unit won't seem so expensive after all. I have no idea why a transponder costs so much.

The B&G VHFs also come with handy wireless remote handsets.

In theory any MFD/AIS combination will allow calling ships direct from the screen although as other's state in practice voice still seems to be preferred.
 
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