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More encounters with Orcas...

Metabarca

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Joined
23 Aug 2002
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7,235
Location
Friuli Venezia Giulia
Imagine how you would feel if for centuries you had lived in a quiet forest, with food readily available and then all of a sudden you are surrounded by chainsaw-wielding maniacs, causing a din and destroying your habitat. Wouldn't you feel just a tad pissed off? These are intelligent and social creatures, after all. The sonar racket around Gibraltar must be terrible (military sources especially). They hit back as they can.
 

RupertW

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Joined
20 Mar 2002
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9,630
Location
Greenwich
Imagine how you would feel if for centuries you had lived in a quiet forest, with food readily available and then all of a sudden you are surrounded by chainsaw-wielding maniacs, causing a din and destroying your habitat. Wouldn't you feel just a tad pissed off? These are intelligent and social creatures, after all. The sonar racket around Gibraltar must be terrible (military sources especially). They hit back as they can.
So we need to cull them fast. 18 months in and nobody will take the decision.
 

Buck Turgidson

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Joined
10 Apr 2012
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1,935
Location
Zürich
Imagine how you would feel if for centuries you had lived in a quiet forest, with food readily available and then all of a sudden you are surrounded by chainsaw-wielding maniacs, causing a din and destroying your habitat. Wouldn't you feel just a tad pissed off? These are intelligent and social creatures, after all. The sonar racket around Gibraltar must be terrible (military sources especially). They hit back as they can.
There is not a single centuries old Orca and your assumption that they have an aural historic tradition is hilarious.
 

RupertW

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20 Mar 2002
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9,630
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Greenwich
Cull? A perfect 19th-century solution: massacre anything that inconveniences us. Then wonder why the planet stops working as it should.
There is no “should”. Are you happy for boats to keep getting damaged with no solution?
 

Nom de plume

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Joined
26 May 2011
Messages
1,675
Imagine how you would feel if for centuries you had lived in a quiet forest, with food readily available and then all of a sudden you are surrounded by chainsaw-wielding maniacs, causing a din and destroying your habitat. Wouldn't you feel just a tad pissed off? These are intelligent and social creatures, after all. The sonar racket around Gibraltar must be terrible (military sources especially). They hit back as they can.
Killer whales rarely venture into forests, what you saw was was more likely a panda or a badger, same colours so easy mistake to make.
 

Moodysailor

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Joined
7 Sep 2020
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516
Interesting responses. The ocean isn't "ours" - we humans have to build contraptions just to survive on it/in it/from it.
IMO, finding a passive way to solve the problem, or avoiding the area should be our responsibility.
I work in the marine industry, have all my life - so I'm not holier than thou, or some tree-hugging idealist. It's just the idea of shark bullets, culling or repellants doesn't sound like a suitable or sustainable solution.

This is just one person's opinion - you are entitled to yours as much as I am from mine, so thank you in advance for your consideration.
 

Fiddlesticks

Active member
Joined
9 Sep 2017
Messages
631
There is no “should”. Are you happy for boats to keep getting damaged with no solution?
Is the case you're making that we should cull Orcas to save a few quid on fibreglass repairs, or that they are actually endangering human life?
 

michael_w

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Joined
8 Oct 2005
Messages
5,189
I wouldn't like to be in a life raft, they'd probably regard it as chewing gum.
 

RupertW

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Joined
20 Mar 2002
Messages
9,630
Location
Greenwich
Is the case you're making that we should cull Orcas to save a few quid on fibreglass repairs, or that they are actually endangering human life?
I’m making the same call I’d make if a particular group of wild elephants started sitting on cars or wild tigers started wandering into villages and starting killing dogs.

Its unusual behaviour, it’s damaging and potentially dangerous to have a crippled yacht and the advice given so far is pointless and ineffective.
 

25931

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Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
3,874
Location
Portugal-Algarve
I’m making the same call I’d make if a particular group of wild elephants started sitting on cars or wild tigers started wandering into villages and starting killing dogs.

Its unusual behaviour, it’s damaging and potentially dangerous to have a crippled yacht and the advice given so far is pointless and ineffective.
I am not aware that anyone has been injured nor that any dolphin has wandered into a village.
 

RupertW

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20 Mar 2002
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9,630
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Greenwich
I am not aware that anyone has been injured.
Do you and your crew sail these waters? Would you genuinely be happy if your sailing was disrupted and you sailing boat expensively damaged and in need of a tow and a repair from 20 miles out to sea?
It’s a no brainer to take a rifle or harpoon to this troup now rather than waiting another 18 months for dozens more minor injuries and potentially worse consequences if the rescue boats don’t get there in time in bad weather.
It is fascinating how almost all those who think it’s fine to do nothing sail far away from the Spanish Atlantic coast and Gibraltar.
 

Biggles Wader

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Joined
3 Mar 2013
Messages
9,235
Location
London
Interesting responses. The ocean isn't "ours" - we humans have to build contraptions just to survive on it/in it/from it.
IMO, finding a passive way to solve the problem, or avoiding the area should be our responsibility.
I work in the marine industry, have all my life - so I'm not holier than thou, or some tree-hugging idealist. It's just the idea of shark bullets, culling or repellants doesn't sound like a suitable or sustainable solution.

This is just one person's opinion - you are entitled to yours as much as I am from mine, so thank you in advance for your consideration.
Yes. We are finally coming to terms with the fact that our environment is finite and destroying our problems actually doesnt solve them, rather it causes more problems later.
 

25931

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Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
3,874
Location
Portugal-Algarve
Do you and your crew sail these waters? Would you genuinely be happy if your sailing was disrupted and you sailing boat expensively damaged and in need of a tow and a repair from 20 miles out to sea?
It’s a no brainer to take a rifle or harpoon to this troup now rather than waiting another 18 months for dozens more minor injuries and potentially worse consequences if the rescue boats don’t get there in time in bad weather.
It is fascinating how almost all those who think it’s fine to do nothing sail far away from the Spanish Atlantic coast and Gibraltar.
I'm no stranger to those waters, I live in the Algarve and have lost count of the number of times that I've spent a day or two during the past forty years in Gib and Ceuta and seen the straits populated by dolphins. They are frequent visitors to our waters as well because we are on the tunny migration route. Not only have I never seen any agressive behaviour but I've never met anyone who has and the local tourist boats feature them.
 
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RupertW

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20 Mar 2002
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9,630
Location
Greenwich
I'm no stranger to those waters, I live in the Algarve and have lost count of the number of times that I've spent a day or to in Gib and Ceuta and seen the straits populated by dolphins. They are frequent visitors to our waters as well. Not only have I never seen any agressive behaviour but I've never met anyone who has and the local tourist boats feature them.
Exactly - it is not normal behaviour so as no other options present themselves it’s either put up with the expensive damage forever or kill that pod. It’s been 18 months and dozens of boats.

If anyone has a better suggestion than, “It hasn’t happened to me so let them keep damaging other peoples’ boats” then I’d generally love to hear it.
 

25931

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Joined
22 Aug 2008
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3,874
Location
Portugal-Algarve
Exactly - it is not normal behaviour so as no other options present themselves it’s either put up with the expensive damage forever or kill that pod. It’s been 18 months and dozens of boats.

If anyone has a better suggestion than, “It hasn’t happened to me so let them keep damaging other peoples’ boats” then I’d generally love to hear it.
I think that "dozens of boats" might be a bit of an exageration. The suggestion from the authorities who are studying the matter is to turn off all noises and they are asking for more info as they have very little.
 

RupertW

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Joined
20 Mar 2002
Messages
9,630
Location
Greenwich
I think that "dozens of boats" might be a bit of an exageration. The suggestion from the authorities who are studying the matter is to turn off all noises and they are asking for more info as they have very little.
Have a look at the reports - dozens of boats is no exaggeration at all. The authorities have a raft of info from those dozens of incidents and as as we have heard often and from the OP the advice is completely useless. Nice idea but doesn’t seem to work.
 
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