Migrants, have you personally been affected when sailing?

Concerto

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Personally I have never had any problem with immigrants in boats whilst returning from France. This is probably because I sail during daylight hours and most illegal immigrant boats travel during the hours of darkness. They believe they will not be seen, even though military radar would surely pick them up.
 

Major_Clanger

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no ,, the OP obviously has deeper alterior motives ,, my comment was aimed at the population in general , who seem only too eager to embrace the latest fear and loathing cult .
You're straying from the topic in question, but surely the OP is allowed to hold commonly held views? Unless one is naïve and politically immature enough to believe in a world without borders, then it is perfectly natural to wonder what unfettered, and often illegal, immigration will do to our country.

I'm going off-topic now, but surely a hot topic at COP26 should be the human population. We control almost all species except our own. There are simply too many of us.
 

cherod

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You're straying from the topic in question, but surely the OP is allowed to hold commonly held views? Unless one is naïve and politically immature enough to believe in a world without borders, then it is perfectly natural to wonder what unfettered, and often illegal, immigration will do to our country.

I'm going off-topic now, but surely a hot topic at COP26 should be the human population. We control almost all species except our own. There are simply too many of us.
i would think that would be destroy most species rather than control ,, seems we are even also destroying even our own species in the long ( ish ) term
 

oldgit

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Came round from Brighton to the Medway a few weeks ago in absolutely perfect weather, flat as pancake , visiblility was around 5 miles** was a tiny weeny bit disappointed that despite keeping a very good look out , did not spot a single object that even vaguely resembled an inflatable full of strong young men, despite the newspaper reports, usually crossing to claim new houses, new cars and all our jobs.
** For pedants, we were on a flybridge.
 

tugger

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Came round from Brighton to the Medway a few weeks ago in absolutely perfect weather, flat as pancake , visiblility was around 5 miles** was a tiny weeny bit disappointed that despite keeping a very good look out , did not spot a single object that even vaguely resembled an inflatable full of strong young men, despite the newspaper reports, usually crossing to claim new houses, new cars and all our jobs.
** For pedants, we were on a flybridge.
Hopefully then the asylum seekers fleeing from genuine tyranny are finding safe and legal entry and the people smugglers aren't profiteering from other people's misery and lives.
 

Tomahawk

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Hopefully then the asylum seekers fleeing from genuine tyranny are finding safe and legal entry and the people smugglers aren't profiteering from other people's misery and lives.

Indeed .. One lives in hope. First Officer used to work with a Persian chap. Seems when the revolution Shah was booted out life became pretty bad. He packed a picnic and the family went out for a drive. They left the road and headed for the border across the desert. When the car ran out of fuel they walked. It must be pretty bad to make that sort of decision.
 
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Daydream believer

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Well I'm hoping to pop over to Boulogne soon, so will let you know of any molestation.
In the current climate I suspect there's more chance of being affected by French fishermen than anyone else.
I am also concerned about the attitude of the French fishermen -& Customs for that matter- towards UK flagged vessels in Boulogne. I suspect that Dieppe may be better, but further to travel, especially if coming from, say, Ramsgate, in one hop. Which I have done a couple of times SH. Dieppe fishermen are more segregated from the marina & fewer in number.
I regularly get passed by fishing boats as I enter/depart Boulogne & they do not always care about how much room they leave when passing. It could lead to a nasty " accidental" "knock" . Or it could involve issues as they turn round near to the hammerhead.

So if you do go, please let us know. Whilst I have had MANY customs visits in France- Boulogne in particular they have always been polite. However, they have been thorough ( one visit lasted 1 hour 5 mins) so with the extra paper work it could prove difficult. I would be interested in what points, if any, raised interest.

As for Immigration, I have been approached in Cherbourg a couple of times by " non British" people asking for rides to the Uk. I just tell them I am going south, to avoid further discussion. I have been pestered several times whilst transiting the night route through Amsterdam & that has been a bit intimidating. I am aware of yachts being boarded in Ostend & one owner being seriously threatened when he tried to chase 2 unworthy types off the bow of his yacht one night. It is not unusual to see them wandering along the pontoons at night.
When returning from the end of a club cruise after the D day celebrations there was no wind & French customs boarded 3 of our boats travelling in close convoy mid channel, from Le Havre to Eastbourne under power. Usual polite exchange. Quick look below & passport crew checks.
 

Daydream believer

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You seem to be suggesting that migrants pose a threat to us and we should join you in fearing them.

I'm not at all clear what you think those who have spend thousands of euros in the hope of getting to the UK and being allowed to settle here would gain by attacking British citizens en route.
It would apppear that there is a danger. The authorities advise to stay clear of migrant boats. If they try to board or are allowed to come alongside, they could become agressive & they could overload ones own boat. On top of that there is the question of health & cleanliness. They may also insist that one goes in a direction that one did not originally intend.
one might ask if there is a legal situation that would arise, in that one would then be "importing/assisting illegals", in the same way that lorry drivers sometimes get fined, even though they are innocent victims.
 

Daydream believer

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Indeed, if one were to play devils advocate, using Poinguards logic the entire COP26 is a waste of time as we have not previously had a climate change disaster as an eample. But I wouldn't make such assertions.
But we have had climate change & it has not always been a disaster. & COP 26 IS a waste of time. Climate in the UK in Roman times was as warm as it is in the Mediteranean regions now. Did not seem to do the Romans a lot of harm.
Untill Atilla & his mates came along.
And to use that as an analogy, I would be more worried about a nuclear war, than a couple of degrees on the thermometer.

In the meantime, I would just like to see COP 26 discuss, less chemicals , fewer shopping trollies & less sewerage in the rivers & less plastic & rubbish in the oceans. That would be a better move that I could support. They could deal with that quickly. The cost would be less, The population would see a direct benefit, without much personal sacrifice & the earth would benefit quite quickly as well
 
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Poignard

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It would apppear that there is a danger. The authorities advise to stay clear of migrant boats. If they try to board or are allowed to come alongside, they could become agressive & they could overload ones own boat. On top of that there is the question of health & cleanliness. They may also insist that one goes in a direction that one did not originally intend.
one might ask if there is a legal situation that would arise, in that one would then be "importing/assisting illegals", in the same way that lorry drivers sometimes get fined, even though they are innocent victims.
If it seemed to me that people were in actual distress, eg drowning or on a boat on fire, I don't see how my conscience would allow me not to help as best I could; bearing in mind all the circumstances

I would not be surprised if they made a mess. When I was in the Royal Hong Kong Police Force (Marine Branch) picking up people swimming from China to Hong Kong was a frequent occurrence. They often made a mess, as seasick, terrified and exhausted people are likely to do. A boat can be cleaned; a dead person cannot be brought back to life.

As regards direction of travel, I assume they would wish to get ashore as soon as possible. I would share their wish, and do what I could to make it happen.

As regards any legal consequences: were I acting under duress, I would have an effective defence (assuming one were needed): the defence of necessity. In the cases involving lorry drivers I assume they failed to check their vehicles, or were complicit. A situation that would not apply in my case.

If being unwilling to see someone die before my eyes without trying to help them makes me some kind of tree-hugging, woke, wimp in your eyes; so be it.
 
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Poignard

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I take exception to that. I did NOT suggest that you were a "tree-hugging, woke, wimp"- I just pointed out the reality & the advice issued by the authorities .
Forgive me. I forgot to include "Remoaner" :ROFLMAO:

As regards reality, that's something the man on the spot has to face; not some civil servant in an office.

As regards the authorities; the only authority until outside assistance arrives is me.
 

Daydream believer

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I would further suggest that being in the "Royal Hong Kong Police Force (Marine Branch) " you were suitably equipped for such tasks. Travelling in a launch, or whatever as a group of officers. I doubt that you were sailing as a husband & wife team in a small yacht at sea. I suspect that does make a difference.
Being a "remoaner" would not protect you either,
And yes! I have seen people drowning , & yes it did affect me deeply to see a 12 year old drown in front of my eyes in spite of my efforts. I can still see the helicopter taking the body away. So I do know what I would do if I saw someone drowning.
But I am not sure that I would go & pick up a boat load of people from a rubber dinghy in the middle of the Channel.
 

oldgit

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But I am not sure that I would go & pick up a boat load of people from a rubber dinghy in the middle of the Channel.

I would simply report the craft and remain on station until proper help arrived unless the situation changed dramaticaly and they became in immediate danger.
Just been watching Saving Lives at Sea with regards to an incident around Eastbourne involving the RNLI , the abuse which met the lifeboat on its return indicates everything you need to know about a certain section of our clickbait led community.
Sow the wind !
 

jordanbasset

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I would simply report the craft and remain on station until proper help arrived unless the situation changed dramaticaly and they became in immediate danger.
Just been watching Saving Lives at Sea with regards to an incident around Eastbourne involving the RNLI , the abuse which met the lifeboat on its return indicates eveything you need to know about a certain section of our community.
Sow the wind !
The abuse given to RNLI staff over rescuing people at sea really is disgraceful and this is perhaps something we can all agree upon.
 

Poignard

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I would further suggest that being in the "Royal Hong Kong Police Force (Marine Branch) " you were suitably equipped for such tasks. Travelling in a launch, or whatever as a group of officers. I doubt that you were sailing as a husband & wife team in a small yacht at sea. I suspect that does make a difference.
Being a "remoaner" would not protect you either,
And yes! I have seen people drowning , & yes it did affect me deeply to see a 12 year old drown in front of my eyes in spite of my efforts. I can still see the helicopter taking the body away. So I do know what I would do if I saw someone drowning.
But I am not sure that I would go & pick up a boat load of people from a rubber dinghy in the middle of the Channel.
My mention of the RHKPF was intended solely to deal with your concern about "health and cleanliness" and to show that I am fully aware that people plucked out of the water do make a mess. If they are from a society that has not adopted Western standards of cleanliness you will very likely find that they leave more than water on your carpets and upholstery.

That might be a consideration for you when deciding whether to try and rescue someone; it wouldn't be with me.

If I see "a boat load of people from a rubber dinghy in the middle of the Channel" and their lives are in immediate danger and there is no one more competent or better equipped than me to help them, I would be under a moral obligation to help them in any way I could. If that involved taking them on board then that is what I would have to do.

What else could I do? Watch them die and do nothing?
 

Major_Clanger

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The abuse given to RNLI staff over rescuing people at sea really is disgraceful and this is perhaps something we can all agree upon.
The abuse is wrong of course, the people at the sharp end of the RNLI are the bravest of the brave. That said, and this is direct from current crew, a number of them do not agree with the task set them as it's often not a rescue in the true sense. Smooth water and serviceable outboard do not equate to lives in peril, as our media tell us.
 

Major_Clanger

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This thread is quite illuminating and I can understand, to a degree, why the mods have narrowed the scope for current affairs conversation.

If it weren't for the fact we're all virtual chums, this thread could quite easily descend in to ill-tempered silliness. Perhaps we should try to get back on track before the mods pull it.
 

Tomahawk

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But we have had climate change & it has not always been a disaster. & COP 26 IS a waste of time. Climate in the UK in Roman times was as warm as it is in the Mediteranean regions now. Did not seem to do the Romans a lot of harm.
Untill Atilla & his mates came along.
And to use that as an analogy, I would be more worried about a nuclear war, than a couple of degrees on the thermometer.

In the meantime, I would just like to see COP 26 discuss, less chemicals , fewer shopping trollies & less sewerage in the rivers & less plastic & rubbish in the oceans. That would be a better move that I could support. They could deal with that quickly. The cost would be less, The population would see a direct benefit, without much personal sacrifice & the earth would benefit quite quickly as well


Daydream old chap.. I was merely putting out bait for my pet troll to see if he would bite.. indeed he couldn't resist the opportunity.
Naughty of me I know.. But he is so sweet to follow me everywhere I go.
 

Poignard

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Daydream old chap.. I was merely putting out bait for my pet troll to see if he would bite.. indeed he couldn't resist the opportunity.
Naughty of me I know.. But he is so sweet to follow me everywhere I go.
If you think someone is trolling you, rather than simply disagreeing with your point of view, then you have a remedy: complain to the moderation team.

If they agree that you are being trolled, they can take appropriate action to keep you safe.
 
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