Bouba
Well-known member
Parking a boat is an acceptable nautical term. Mr Googler parks a boat trailer......
that is the difference between me and him, that and the fact that all my polishing rags are still clean......
MAN have nailed it in 1 .
- Thread starter Portofino
- Start date
that is the difference between me and him, that and the fact that all my polishing rags are still clean......
BruceK
Well-known member
Parking a boat..... only in a marina could that be construed as acceptable. Us harbour lads berth.
Bouba
Well-known member
TBH milk float technology is perfectly acceptable for a boat. Unlike a car, a boat has room for solar panels. Also a boat needs much more battery power than a car, and luckily a boat doesn’t care if you use older bigger heavier cheaper batteries. Especially as it’s extremely unlikely that any port will install superchargers (without them being prohibitively expensive)
Bouba
Well-known member
In France there is no word for marina. We call them ports and I don’t want to watch you lads birth?
vas
Well-known member
unless solar panel performance progresses MASSIVELY the circa 350W you can get from circa 2sqm of area mean that you wont easily get more than 2kW, more difficult to manage 4kW unless it's something way larger than 60+ feet.
I can assure you that is a drop in the ocean in terms of energy to run / move your boat...
I can assure you that is a drop in the ocean in terms of energy to run / move your boat...
Bouba
Well-known member
When Tesla makes large electric trucks then the marinisation can begin. But you are right, charging is the problem but on a leisure boat that is used only once a week in summer then solar and slow marina electric supply might just work. Probably it will start with super yacht tenders
westernman
Well-known member
Bouba
Well-known member
Port Camargue is HUGE! In fact I was offered a very nice maison with mooring while it was still in the planning stage. But while talking to the sales lady I enquired about the Mistral. She claimed to have never heard of it! So that put me off. But I love the Camargue and the port is great
Bouba
Well-known member
How’s this for a floating milk float...
Countdown to Southampton Boat Show 2021: Hardy 42 Hybrid
I think it looks the bees knees
Countdown to Southampton Boat Show 2021: Hardy 42 Hybrid
I think it looks the bees knees
Portofino
Well-known member
It’s inferior tech already compared to the MANs as illustrated.
Eg no boost mode , or the mains acting as generators , well one while the other is doing something else which may be running on diesel or batteries .
Your Tesla point about rapid charge is not applicable as most boats will be plugged in over night or for many days anyhow in there marinas .Aside the running engines will recharged in geny mode .
Sound s like you missed the “ mode “ bit(s) .
What MAN have done have placed the coils + magnets between the diesels + g boxes .Added bats to your and the boats requirements .
The wire coils + magnets can swing both ways namely act as a motor ( using batt reserves or geny or the other one of the twin ).On there own or added a bit like F1 DRS to boost the hp of the diesels .
Or turn / spin and act a electricity generators , which one could power the other in a twin set up , or recharge batteries or actual provide power like a conventional geny to feed to boat underway thus saving OEM geny size or making a geny if multiple set up redundant.
Of course at the dock over night or between visits / outings the shore power can start recharging the extra battery banks …..but unlike Tesla there is no time rush .
You just set off under one engine turning a prop at D speed and run the second engine in geny / recharge to finish topping up the Li Ion bank - or what ever .
A bit late in a hurry = turn on both diesels and initiate both electric motors ( Li ion fully charged ) get up on the plane and let rip .
Just think a S/Skr yacht 90 with the std 2000 Hp V 12 ……..with the extra 500 Hp each so 2+ 2500 Hp .
So instead of a top whack of say 28 knots at wot with std diesels , with theses on “ boost “ it cruisers at over 30 knots .
Also same boat easing in to Porquerolles under electric only using the motors .And in the morning easing out under “ e “
Enough “ e” to nip across to the mainland bays like Estangnol and back .
When they a done after a few days blast back to Cannes in less than 2 hrs @ 30 knots - full boost mode …..if they want
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vas
Well-known member
i really find it hard to believe that it will do 2h with 400Ah@48V, maybe I'm missing something (or they're missing a zero in the Ah)
As a rough example my 200Ah@24V will give my watermaker less than 2h, ok, say 2h. Problem is watermaker is 2kW, the el.motor they use is 20kW but granted bat capacity is quadruple to mine.
Bouba
Well-known member
Yes, being able to take a battery down to 0% makes a huge difference. Four knots is well below hull speed so as long as you are not push against wind or tide, sounds right to me.
I’m told it’s not as sophisticated at the Man unit ??but does it’s job. A single engine shaft boat is ripe for hybrid propulsion
prinex
Active member
True but what crazy ECA zone would that be ? In and out of port you can drive only E but then no worries ? I guess ECA would be for national park area like La Maddalena in Sardinia with zones "no combustion engines" where only sailing / E-motor at 7kn are possible, transit only, no anchoring etc.
I find it hard to believe that the french grand nation and all will suddenly make an ECA where your everyday frenchman with his benetau gt cannot even enter, but the moneyed up with their brand new 200K E-Hybrid addition to the 90 foot yacht not only can enter but also anchor smack in the middle. We have seen what happened with the 24+meter lengths in CdA, the 40+ even have to negotiate an "anchoring plan" in advance etc etc.
If protection of the environment is their goal they are better off just saying 7kn limits and no more than 14mt length in the ECA area, genset forbidden while at anchor, waste tanks gps-locked, or just ban ancient engines at all (2 stroke Diesel), an send all the others to some dump like plage Pompelonne South side or around Port Grimaud.
Portofino
Well-known member
Once the auto / car thing ( with EU assistance via legislation) gets into the public psyche, then marine will naturally follow easily.Hardly any resistance.Indeed this type of tech will be a marketing mans dream at boats shows .
I mean when new engine only cars are banned circa 2030/35 ? That’s not far away .
Sure there are few Tesla + other early adaptors , but I mean when it’s compulsory with new vehicles .
Take the Y 90 example i hypothetically used ^^^ .
Affluent EV city family wants a boat or just charter say in 2025 with a few years of the EV “D day “drawing close .
Stories in the media of Polar bears + Penguins etc loosing habits, blazing summer wild fires , winter floods ( already happened) ,etc etc . Fosters the feeling as a responsible family they need to do there “ bit “for the environment.
Helps there conscience the tubs a sorted hybrid with all theses “ modes “ .
As Prinex says they can get into ECA s + much more unrestricted activity by then ?
Of course at the end of the 2 weeks charter or 3/4 yrs ownership experience if the family bought one , the sum total of carbon actually burn,t would be I reckon more / less the same from the new singing and dancing V12 badged 2500 Hp MAN gizmos than a year 2019 boat fitted with the MAN std oil burner only V12 s 1800 hps or what ever .
Why ? The difference will be the usage pattern .
To days oil burner only will probably do a lot at D speed , Tomorrow’s “e “ Y 90 will use the 30 knots , use the “ boost “ .
Sure it will use the “ e” only in the ECA s .It will go further faster do more hrs .
How ever respective governments , manufacturers sites and playgrounds sites and owners / charter guests …..its all they can do to placate Greta et al .
In the global carbon scheme leisure boating is a none event , tiny fraction of a % .How ever it’s the social conscience thats going to trigger the “ e “ boat hybridisation proliferation.Yes it will be miniaturised down by the rest of the field of marine engine manufacturers .
Politically electable governments will facilitate this as a creation of ECA s will be a vote winner .
I mean when new engine only cars are banned circa 2030/35 ? That’s not far away .
Sure there are few Tesla + other early adaptors , but I mean when it’s compulsory with new vehicles .
Take the Y 90 example i hypothetically used ^^^ .
Affluent EV city family wants a boat or just charter say in 2025 with a few years of the EV “D day “drawing close .
Stories in the media of Polar bears + Penguins etc loosing habits, blazing summer wild fires , winter floods ( already happened) ,etc etc . Fosters the feeling as a responsible family they need to do there “ bit “for the environment.
Helps there conscience the tubs a sorted hybrid with all theses “ modes “ .
As Prinex says they can get into ECA s + much more unrestricted activity by then ?
Of course at the end of the 2 weeks charter or 3/4 yrs ownership experience if the family bought one , the sum total of carbon actually burn,t would be I reckon more / less the same from the new singing and dancing V12 badged 2500 Hp MAN gizmos than a year 2019 boat fitted with the MAN std oil burner only V12 s 1800 hps or what ever .
Why ? The difference will be the usage pattern .
To days oil burner only will probably do a lot at D speed , Tomorrow’s “e “ Y 90 will use the 30 knots , use the “ boost “ .
Sure it will use the “ e” only in the ECA s .It will go further faster do more hrs .
How ever respective governments , manufacturers sites and playgrounds sites and owners / charter guests …..its all they can do to placate Greta et al .
In the global carbon scheme leisure boating is a none event , tiny fraction of a % .How ever it’s the social conscience thats going to trigger the “ e “ boat hybridisation proliferation.Yes it will be miniaturised down by the rest of the field of marine engine manufacturers .
Politically electable governments will facilitate this as a creation of ECA s will be a vote winner .
Bouba
Well-known member
France already has many lakes that are electric only.
Portofino
Well-known member
Decade 2030 to 2040 ……It will all happen then .
Portofino
Well-known member
Because it’s drinking / town water .
Pretty universal policy in the westernised world .
prinex
Active member
Yes it will, it just needs to be seen if the right answer is electric rib and 10 minutes trip to the beach, or brand new all-electric trawler / hybrid whatsoever. I would not spend for a hybrid solution now that will eventually come to fruition in 2040.
MapisM
Well-known member
I would not spend for a hybrid period.
In my lifetime, anyway.
In my lifetime, anyway.
vas
Well-known member
what exactly will happen then is the Q though!
I fear it will be ban on new built of certain types/sizes without hybrid propulsion fullstop.
I v.much doubt an older boat wont be able to enter a port without hybrid propulsion and anyway how are they going to police that? And say you do have such crap and something fails in the system (wont be the first time) and you're left with diesel propulsion only, wont you be able to go back to your birth?
I think we are simply dreaming...