CAPTAIN FANTASTIC
Well-known member
To convert to loose foot, the boom section has to be thicker.
Loose Footed Main Conversion
- Thread starter Daverw
- Start date
Poignard
Well-known member
There was a fitting riveted to the boom to which the kicking-strap was attached.
The boom had corroded, unseen, under this fitting and was greatly weakened.
The break occurred along the line of rivet holes, a case of "Tear along the dotted line"
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This seems like an excessively complicated manoeuvre. The foredeck crew pass they lazy guy through the gap and then you pull it through with that?
What if something goes pear shaped? You'd have a right tangle...
westhinder
Well-known member
I have a hybrid foot on the mainsail: a bolt rope for the forward half of the foot, but a very slack and baggy piece of canvas between the bolt rope and the real foot of the sail. That allows for the full adjustment that a loose footed main has, while at the same time retaining the end plate effect of the boom, as no pressure escapes between foot and boom. The sailmaker has provided three reinforced slits where the reefing lines are tied around the boom.
I had never seen this arrangement on another boat, but it was on the original North main with which the boat was equipped when I bought her. I rather liked the idea and when I ordered a new main my sailmaker did not object to fitting a similar system on the loose-footed main he proposed. The slits for the reefing lines have the advantage of keeping the lines in the desired position when they are slacked off
I had never seen this arrangement on another boat, but it was on the original North main with which the boat was equipped when I bought her. I rather liked the idea and when I ordered a new main my sailmaker did not object to fitting a similar system on the loose-footed main he proposed. The slits for the reefing lines have the advantage of keeping the lines in the desired position when they are slacked off
Laser310
Well-known member
This is called a "Letterbox Douse"
it has the advantage that it is much less likely for any part of the spinnaker to end up in the water.., and it can be done while reaching pretty tight with the spinnaker.., without a wiggle down to make the douse easy for the crew
it has the disadvantage that, afterwards, all the lines need to be disconnected from the spinnaker, and if you want to hoist it again, you need to re-run the tapes and reconnect the sheets. On fully-crewed big boats, this is not a problem, as it is common to re-pack the chute after every douse anyway.
I think it is maybe more common with asymmetric chutes than symmetric, because asymmetric, especially if they are on a long sprit, are a bit more likely to end up in the water
it is considered a safe and conservative douse.
I do it a lot on my boat.., with non-sailing guests aboard - they don't need to know anything.., and we get the spinnaker down with no drama. the lazy sheet goes around in front of the mast and through the slot and the crew pulls it as fast as they can. you might instruct them to gather either the foot or the leech first, depending on which you are easing first.
mbroom
Active member
Done it for years when I was racing. It’s actually very controlled and the kite is blanketed as it comes down. I don’t recollect any problems from this method apart from re-reeving the sheets etc.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
kof
Active member
Not at all - plus the top surface of the boom is smooth which means the dropping sail glides easily over it and won't snag. It's how racing boats have done it for the last 20 years.
kof
Active member
Not correct. The load from the vang/kicker far exceeds the load from the foot of a mainsail. Also when you reef your main you end up with a loose foot with just the tack and clew secured , so why doesn't it break then? The loads on a mainsail are in the top 60% and the aft 70% and mostly on the clew. Everything else is just shaping.
Stemar
Well-known member
I have to think that a boom that broke after fitting a loose footed main was going to break soon anyway. I can see increased loads if the mainsheet is halfway down the boom, but not if it's at or near the end.
I changed to loose footed when I fitted a stakpak (home made) because there wasn't room in the boom slot for the pak and the boltrope of the sail. A bit of leftover lazyjack tape through the clew and round the boom held it down and a couple of dinghy blocks made an outhaul. I don't know how much of a difference it really made, but one theoretical difference is the ability to ease the outhaul for a fuller shape in light winds. When I got a new main, it had a slider to replace the clew strop.
I changed to loose footed when I fitted a stakpak (home made) because there wasn't room in the boom slot for the pak and the boltrope of the sail. A bit of leftover lazyjack tape through the clew and round the boom held it down and a couple of dinghy blocks made an outhaul. I don't know how much of a difference it really made, but one theoretical difference is the ability to ease the outhaul for a fuller shape in light winds. When I got a new main, it had a slider to replace the clew strop.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
+1
I would also point out that there is a greater load in the mainsail when it is reefed so a greater load is being applied to the boom in the "2point" configuration. When reefed
If one considers a full sail configuration with x force in the jib and y force in the main the wind increases until, say, the deck goes awash. At that point one reefs the jib and main with the main fixed now at 2 points
Now one sails as the wind increases more and the deck goes awash again. It stands to reason that the forces needed must be the same x &y. However, the main now has a lower c of g so to apply y it has to have a greater force than when it was fully out.
So if the boom is not strong enough for a 2 point reef it is not strong enough for a loose foot on a full sail in the first place
Daverw
Well-known member
Thanks all for the comments, looks like not worth the bother.
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
My storm trisail on one of our boats is effectively loose footed as much easier to run the clew rope to the end of the boom than have a separate main sheet for it and have an unused boom banging away and needing restraining. I wouldnt be worrying much about kicking strap when using it and boom probably over strong for usage anyway.
However my other boats mainsail being light cloth and some years old was vulnerable and tore in F6 despite being reefed so - engine having failed - we hoist a stay sail up mast and used it as loose footed to get us home albeit a funny shape. I then got sailmaker to cut down a narrow aspect heavy cloth sail mainsail from first boat to make a heavy weather main to run as loose footed. And yes a rope will be needed from clew around the boom to keep it all in order
The advantage of a loose footed sail is that the other sail can be left tied up on the boom, nicely out of the way while a smaller heavy weather sail is then bent on. And that was probably the reason for it use in earlier times. As for racing, who knows?
However my other boats mainsail being light cloth and some years old was vulnerable and tore in F6 despite being reefed so - engine having failed - we hoist a stay sail up mast and used it as loose footed to get us home albeit a funny shape. I then got sailmaker to cut down a narrow aspect heavy cloth sail mainsail from first boat to make a heavy weather main to run as loose footed. And yes a rope will be needed from clew around the boom to keep it all in order
The advantage of a loose footed sail is that the other sail can be left tied up on the boom, nicely out of the way while a smaller heavy weather sail is then bent on. And that was probably the reason for it use in earlier times. As for racing, who knows?
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dom
Well-known member
Personally, i don't see the point of setting a trisail without dropping the boom and flying with a free clew.
A fourth, ultra-deep reef can be much easier to manage?
mjcoon
Well-known member
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
A fourth reef is not practical if you have roller reefing as boom will then droop dangerously. Reefing a sail further not practical if you have lightweight sail that would tear if subjected to strong winds even if you could reef it down that much.
Thats why you have a heavy weather main or trisail. Though I was taught that trisail needed to fly free, most boats dont do this as it would mean restraining main, securing boom, unshackling mainshets from boom and attaching it to trisail (not much fun in rolling sea) without mainsheet being a/ too short and b/ running along cockpit near headheight as clew a metre further forward thus endangering the crew (unless mainsheet on coach roof).
Its for going to windward, as going down wind a heavily furled genoa or foresail will do
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dom
Well-known member
One can set a trysail either free-clew or from the boom: advantages and disadvantages to each system.
Personally, I find setting one a right royal PITA, unless the thing has been bent on well in advance and is - truly - all set to go. Which is why, like many, I prefer to specify an ultra-deep 3rd reef, or a 4th, only rigging the deeper reefs as and when necessary.
As for point of sail, making progress upwind in a storm requires considerable forethought, equipment, and a suitable boat.
This link explains the choice reasonably well but there are many others:
Skip Novak’s Storm Sailing Techniques Part 3: storm sails
dom
Well-known member
Don't disagree, it's horses for courses if roller boom, etc., are involved.
As for upwind work, what kind of boat/sail combination do you envisage for uphill storm work? For example, furling gennies will play little role here, and for many boats need to be off the forestay by then.
Channel Sailor
Active member
Good point made here, if full sail and driving the yacht yard. But as soon as a reef is put, in the load is all at the clew and tack anyway. As it happens I now have a new stronger boom on my yacht which i don’t think accommodates a bolt rope foot.
oldmanofthehills
Well-known member
I agree about advantage etc but tried to give summary, likewise about preprep. Our little LM27 feels like its in a storm in gale F7 and rolls like a pig if no mainsail set. I dont expect to make much progress upwind in stronger winds though she is wonderfully buoyant so just need to hold position. I have considered a storm jib but quite frankly without an inner stay all arrangements are problematic and I still wouldnt make much progress
Heavy weather sail is for really for bending on before leaving anchorage or mooring and worked fine when we tried it in strong winds. Has a high cut clew to keep boom well out of way and slab reefing.