Long term live-aboard cruising on European waterways cannot be over for us Brits

steve yates

Well-known member
Joined
16 Oct 2014
Messages
3,761
Location
Benfleet, Essex/Keswick, Cumbria
Visit site
With respect, I think that you are completely missing my point.

Im am NOT saying that I can (or want) to repeat my 1970/80/90 / 2016 cruising!
I am (AM) saying that I cruised in the 70/80/90/2014 's under whatever)rules as they then applied AND FOUND A WAY TO CRUISE UNDER THOSE RULES!
I will continue to be flexible and do the same again.

Neither the EU or any other political organisation will determine my cruising grounds, never have, never will.
No harking back guys, just pissed at the removal of free movement, but nowt we can do about that. Your last line is a bit ridiculous though, and negates your first line!
You found a way to cruise under those rules, yet you never let the rules dicttate when and where you cruise? I don't think so :) :)

Look, we know we can cruise, but we cant cruise the way we planned, and yes, we will make alternative plans, thats life. But you seem to forget that as you have already cruised there extensivley, you have probably already done things the OP or I or others would like to do, so its no skin off your nose if you do something different. I get that, but this thread was about ways of getting past the new rules, which, by the way, you have no direct experience of. If you come back and find a way past them I'd love to hear about it.

Personally, my first plan is to get a 1 year visa for fance, which then leaves my schengen slots free, so I can spend 6 months or so cruising down the atlantic coasts to reach the med and then get back onto the french coast, ready to start schengen shuffling again from Italy onwards.
 

syvictoria

Well-known member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
1,819
Location
Europe
Visit site
I think the differing perspectives here may largely be down to whether or not a cruiser intends (or had intended) to have any/regular trips back to the UK, therefore encountering additional (non-marine) officialdom and border control on a more regular basis.

ETIAS is of course the elephant in the room for everyone I fear...
 

nortada

Well-known member
Joined
24 May 2012
Messages
15,357
Location
Walton-on-the-Naze.
Visit site
Nortada I don't really want to keep going around and around with this as I said I posted much to much on this subject,
but to answer your question, no I do not .
I have my own way with dealing with the 90/180 days, i have posted else where and I just refuse to go through it all again,
Just to get into another discussion with them who don't agree ,

I didn't ask a question?

All I am trying to do is to bridge the gap, pointing out that others are asking for detail on how you, Rebecca and Steve intend to manage your cruising and deal with the 90/180 days.

The problem is you are sending mixed messages.

You appear to plan to play the system and engineer remaining in the EU beyond the 90 day limit.

You suggest that all Brits in the EU, who do not have residency should have had their passport stamped, or they are in the EU illegally (your suggestion, not mine). Then you advise that all non-residents in your current location, will not get their passport stamped so by your reckoning, are illegals.

Then you cite the case of the guy who, worried that he would be penalized for exceeding his 90 days, got his passport stamped as departing but intends to remain in country 'under the radar'. Be interesting to hear what happens if still in countries, he meets up with another set officials.

You also suggest that you will not be breaking any rules? By your criteria, you already are!

Vic, as I have said before, you a experienced cruiser and a smart cookie, well versed in playing the system but I think you are encouraging people down a potentially dangerous route, for which they are ill equipped.

This is why other, contributors, including me, are requesting you clarify your guidance and possibly give them health warnings.

Possibly, I should conclude by clearly stating my position.

On 1 Jan 21, Brits in the EU entered a Brave New World so previous (possibly anecdotal) experiences count for little.

Relationships between the EU and UK (worsened by the ongoing vaccine issue and spats at the borders) are not good.

So obey the rules and either get residency, if you wish to remain for longer than 90/180 days in the EU or leave the EU before this time expires.

There may be 'work arounds' but be aware, local officials may not like you cunning plan so recognise you may have to bear the consequences, which will probably vary from country to country.

Once, the artful dodger, I am too now too old to play hide-and-seek and so stick by the rules.
 
Last edited:

sailaboutvic

Well-known member
Joined
26 Jan 2004
Messages
9,983
Location
Northern Europe
Visit site
[
I didn't ask a question?

All I am trying to do is to bridge the gap, pointing out that others are asking for detail on how you, Rebecca and Steve intend to manage your cruising and deal with the 90/180 days.

The problem is you are sending mixed messages.

You appear to plan to play the system and engineer remaining in the EU beyond the 90 day limit.

You suggest that all Brits in the EU, who do not have residency should have had their passport stamped, or they are in the EU illegally (your suggestion, not mine). Then you advise that all non-residents in your current location, will not get their passport stamped so by your reckoning, are illegals.

Then you cite the case of the guy who, worried that he would be penalized for exceeding his 90 days, got his passport stamped as departing but intends to remain in country 'under the radar'. Be interesting to hear what happens if still in countries, he meets up with another set officials.

You also suggest that you will not be breaking any rules? By your criteria, you already are!

Vic, as I have said before, you a experienced cruiser and a smart cookie, well versed in playing the system but I think you are encouraging people down a potentially dangerous route, for which they are ill equipped.

This is why other, contributors, including me, are requesting you clarify your guidance and possibly give them health warnings.

Possibly, I should conclude by clearly stating my position.

On 1 Jan 21, Brits in the EU entered a Brave New World so previous (possibly anecdotal) experiences count for little.

Relationships between the EU and UK (worsened by the ongoing vaccine issue and spats at the borders) are not good.

So obey the rules and either get residency, if you wish to remain for longer than 90/180 days in the EU or leave the EU before this time expires.

There may be 'work arounds' but be aware, local officials may not like you cunning plan so recognise you may have to bear the consequences, which will probably vary from country to country.

Once, the artful dodger, I am too now too old to play hide-and-seek and so stick by the rules.
Nortada you must be a very bored man to keep searching my posting then mix them up to make me look bad my friend,
well at the very less you could post what I did say.or are your taken a leave out of your mate book .

I know posting isn't always clear how can they be when posting go from one thing then go off to another direction.
What you done is posted a mix of stuff I wrote then quoted me incorrectly to fit your purposes.

You wrote
(You suggest that all Brits in the EU, who do not have residency should have had their passport stamped, or they are in the EU illegally (your suggestion, not mine). Then you advise that all non-residents in your current location, will not get their passport stamped so by your reckoning, are illegals.)
Thats been taken from a remark I made in respect to me ,
that we now been in the EU since the begin of this year and we still not had our passport stamp nor has any other brit in our marina Which probably makes us illegals ,
It was also written as a joke to something else some time back some suggestion that official will be out in force 1st Jan to catch us
which Andrew reply to and I give him a thumps up because he didn't see that I was joking .
Joking or not it probably do make us illegals.
This is what I actually said NO suggestion at all about that I advise people not to get their passport stamped As you said.

(I and ever other brits in this marina are overstays already , non of us have our passport stamp or got any intention of getting them stamp.
reading cruisers forum not may have got stamps and the once who have are now worried what going to happen three months down the line, I guess they will have to get Out)

Then you picking another posting
(Then you cite the case of the guy who, worried that he would be penalized for exceeding his 90 days, got his passport stamped as departing but intends to remain in country 'under the radar'. Be interesting to hear what happens if still in countries, he meets up with another set officials.)
I where did I critisizus the guy ,?
what I did do helped him out of a situation he was in ,
Because you wasn't there and you have no idea who it was that stamp him out or how the rest of the conversation when and what he was also given,
your comments and attack on me is worthless ?

Another part of your posting .
(This is why other, contributors, including me, are requesting you clarify your guidance and possibly give them health warnings.)

Try and read #80 if thats not clear enough I don't know what is..

I stop now before saying some thing I might regret.
To be totally honesty you can't imagine how much you pissed me off with this posting,
 
Last edited:

nortada

Well-known member
Joined
24 May 2012
Messages
15,357
Location
Walton-on-the-Naze.
Visit site
[QUOTE="sailaboutvic, post: 7567032, member: 6128"}

Nortada you must be a very bored man to keep searching my posting then mix them up to make me look bad my friend,
well at the very less you could post what I did say.or are your taken a leave out of your mate book .

I know posting isn't always clear how can they be when posting go from one thing then go off to another direction.
What you done is posted a mix of stuff I wrote then quoted me incorrectly to fit your purposes.

You wrote
(You suggest that all Brits in the EU, who do not have residency should have had their passport stamped, or they are in the EU illegally (your suggestion, not mine). Then you advise that all non-residents in your current location, will not get their passport stamped so by your reckoning, are illegals.)
Thats been taken from a remark I made in respect to me ,
that we now been in the EU since the begin of this year and we still not had our passport stamp nor has any other brit in our marina Which probably makes us illegals ,
It was also written as a joke to something else some time back some suggestion that official will be out in force 1st Jan to catch us
which Andrew reply to and I give him a thumps up because he didn't see that I was joking .
Joking or not it probably do make us illegals.
This is what I actually said NO suggestion at all about that I advise people not to get their passport stamped As you said.

(I and ever other brits in this marina are overstays already , non of us have our passport stamp or got any intention of getting them stamp.
reading cruisers forum not may have got stamps and the once who have are now worried what going to happen three months down the line, I guess they will have to get Out)

Then you picking another posting
(Then you cite the case of the guy who, worried that he would be penalized for exceeding his 90 days, got his passport stamped as departing but intends to remain in country 'under the radar'. Be interesting to hear what happens if still in countries, he meets up with another set officials.)
I where did I critisizus the guy ,?
what I did do helped him out of a situation he was in ,
Because you wasn't there and you have no idea who it was that stamp him out or how the rest of the conversation when and what he was also given,
your comments and attack on me is worthless ?

Another part of your posting .
(This is why other, contributors, including me, are requesting you clarify your guidance and possibly give them health warnings.)

Try and read #80 if thats not clear enough I don't know what is..

I stop now before saying some thing I might regret.
To be totally honesty you can't imagine how much you pissed me off with this posting,
[/QUOTE]

Felt like a change but I am not blue.:rolleyes:

Vic, Please calm down. I don't post to make you look bad or piss you off.

However, I do think you are peddling a potentially dangerous line, which could encourage other to try to play the system and go where they they shouldn't so like others, I will again ask you to share your current plan.

Actually, I don't re-visit your posts I just remember what you post and then respond, nevertheless as you requested, I re-read your #80 and I must be thick, 'cos it weren't clear to me - other than you were offering to be a best-man.

Sorry if my version of the truth, as I see it, pisses you off but you could put me on ignore or easier still, don't read my posts.

Vic, one last thing, like you, I am dyslexic so I carefully proof read everything I write, in the hope that other's will find my efforts easier to follow.

Incidentally, this is why many of messages are edited because, as you will know, proof reading, can miss things.


Looking forward to reading about the cunning plan.(y);)
 
Last edited:

sailaboutvic

Well-known member
Joined
26 Jan 2004
Messages
9,983
Location
Northern Europe
Visit site
[QUOTE="sailaboutvic, post: 7567032, member: 6128"}

Nortada you must be a very bored man to keep searching my posting then mix them up to make me look bad my friend,
well at the very less you could post what I did say.or are your taken a leave out of your mate book .

I know posting isn't always clear how can they be when posting go from one thing then go off to another direction.
What you done is posted a mix of stuff I wrote then quoted me incorrectly to fit your purposes.

You wrote
(You suggest that all Brits in the EU, who do not have residency should have had their passport stamped, or they are in the EU illegally (your suggestion, not mine). Then you advise that all non-residents in your current location, will not get their passport stamped so by your reckoning, are illegals.)
Thats been taken from a remark I made in respect to me ,
that we now been in the EU since the begin of this year and we still not had our passport stamp nor has any other brit in our marina Which probably makes us illegals ,
It was also written as a joke to something else some time back some suggestion that official will be out in force 1st Jan to catch us
which Andrew reply to and I give him a thumps up because he didn't see that I was joking .
Joking or not it probably do make us illegals.
This is what I actually said NO suggestion at all about that I advise people not to get their passport stamped As you said.

(I and ever other brits in this marina are overstays already , non of us have our passport stamp or got any intention of getting them stamp.
reading cruisers forum not may have got stamps and the once who have are now worried what going to happen three months down the line, I guess they will have to get Out)

Then you picking another posting
(Then you cite the case of the guy who, worried that he would be penalized for exceeding his 90 days, got his passport stamped as departing but intends to remain in country 'under the radar'. Be interesting to hear what happens if still in countries, he meets up with another set officials.)
I where did I critisizus the guy ,?
what I did do helped him out of a situation he was in ,
Because you wasn't there and you have no idea who it was that stamp him out or how the rest of the conversation when and what he was also given,
your comments and attack on me is worthless ?

Another part of your posting .
(This is why other, contributors, including me, are requesting you clarify your guidance and possibly give them health warnings.)

Try and read #80 if thats not clear enough I don't know what is..

I stop now before saying some thing I might regret.
To be totally honesty you can't imagine how much you pissed me off with this posting,

Felt like a change but I am not blue.

Vic, Calm down. I don't post to make you look bad.

However, I do think you are peddling a potentially dangerous line, which could encourage other to try to play the system and go where they they shouldn't so like others, I will again ask you to share your current plan.

Actually, I don't re-visit your posts I just remember what you post and then respond, nevertheless as you requested, I re-read your #80 and I must be thick, 'cos it weren't clear to me - other than you were offering to be a best-man.

Sorry if my version of the truth, as I see it pisses you off but you could put me on ignore or easier still, don't read my posts.

Vic, one last thing, like you, I am dyslexic so I carefully proof read everything I I write, in the hope that other's will find my efforts easier to follow.

Incidentally, this is why many of messages are edited because, as you will know proof reading, can miss things.


Looking forward to reading about the cunning plan.(y);)
[/QUOTE]
I have got no intention of sharing any thing , make what you like of it ,
Yes I am very piss off being missed QUOTE first it was Graham now you.
Portugal must have gone to your heads.
I wish everyone cruisers the best of luck ,
You hear No more from me on this subject.
You carry on .
 

nortada

Well-known member
Joined
24 May 2012
Messages
15,357
Location
Walton-on-the-Naze.
Visit site
Felt like a change but I am not blue.

Vic, Calm down. I don't post to make you look bad.

However, I do think you are peddling a potentially dangerous line, which could encourage other to try to play the system and go where they they shouldn't so like others, I will again ask you to share your current plan.

Actually, I don't re-visit your posts I just remember what you post and then respond, nevertheless as you requested, I re-read your #80 and I must be thick, 'cos it weren't clear to me - other than you were offering to be a best-man.

Sorry if my version of the truth, as I see it pisses you off but you could put me on ignore or easier still, don't read my posts.

Vic, one last thing, like you, I am dyslexic so I carefully proof read everything I I write, in the hope that other's will find my efforts easier to follow.

Incidentally, this is why many of messages are edited because, as you will know proof reading, can miss things.


Looking forward to reading about the cunning plan.(y);)
I have got no intention of sharing any thing , make what you like of it ,
Yes I am very piss off being missed QUOTE first it was Graham now you.
Portugal must have gone to your heads.
I wish everyone cruisers the best of luck ,
You hear No more from me on this subject.
You carry on .
[/QUOTE]
So no cunning plan :unsure: - OK(y)
 

Caladh

Well-known member
Joined
25 Oct 2009
Messages
1,408
Location
Out there again and no longer dreaming
Visit site
I have got no intention of sharing any thing , make what you like of it ,
Yes I am very piss off being missed QUOTE first it was Graham now you.
Portugal must have gone to your heads.
I wish everyone cruisers the best of luck ,
You hear No more from me on this subject.
You carry on .
So no cunning plan :unsure: - OK(y)
[/QUOTE]
It seems to me that Vic and cruisers in his situation are probably waiting it out at the moment. Come the end of March yes they are probably illegal in the EU. I had not given thought to those non EU citizens in the EU who have not had their passports stamped in - yet. It will be of course be up to the officialdom in those countries to effectively catch up with them. However when asked the question how long have you been living on your boat/in this marina/yard you are surely going to be found out . The question for them is will they be asked to leave or get themselves stamped in and start the 90 days. At some point pleading ignorance isn’t going to cut it.
 

nortada

Well-known member
Joined
24 May 2012
Messages
15,357
Location
Walton-on-the-Naze.
Visit site
Where Portugal is concerned, I suspect nothing will happen on 1 Apr 21 or until they come to leave Portugal, Even then if they are leaving by sea or air, I suspect nothing will happen. Over land could be different.

When they arrive in their next destination, if it is in the Schengen Zone (unless they have residency there), their passports will be date stamped and the 90 days will start from then.

If their destination is outside the Schengen Zone nothing will happen.

Big question is, what will happen when they re-enter the Schengen Zone. If they have residency, nothing will happen. If they do not have residency, their passport will be stamped.

It will be interesting to see how folk with Portuguese Residency fair driving back. When they arrive at the Spanish Border, as they aren’t Spanish residents, their passports will be stamped and the 90 day rundown will commence. When they get to Portugal, how do they stop the Schengen clock because if they don’t when they come to drive back (4 months later) it might be noted that they have over-stayed their welcome in the EU - could all become rather messy.
 

Graham376

Well-known member
Joined
15 Apr 2018
Messages
7,419
Location
Boat on Mooring off Faro, Home near Abergele
Visit site
It will be interesting to see how folk with Portuguese Residency fair driving back. When they arrive at the Spanish Border, as they aren’t Spanish residents, their passports will be stamped and the 90 day rundown will commence. When they get to Portugal, how do they stop the Schengen clock because if they don’t when they come to drive back (4 months later) it might be noted that they have over-stayed their welcome in the EU - could all become rather messy.

According to EU, passports belonging to residents in transit should not be stamped but, try telling that to the French who are stamping.
 

Seastoke

Well-known member
Joined
20 Sep 2011
Messages
11,223
Visit site
Why be specific about Portugal❓

Are you thinking of heading that way. As has yet to happen, who knows❓

I think the circumstances would have a significant impact. That and the official you come into contact with.
Did i mention Portugal ,no . If you want to know I am heading for Nice.
 

Cin70

Member
Joined
16 Apr 2018
Messages
95
Visit site
Two sailor friends who overstayed on their Visa were arrested at the Spanish border, spent a night in the cells and the next day escorted out of Spain. Not a pleasant experience.

For those in the EU currently and since before the 1st Jan 21, you will be deemed to have entered on the 1st Jan and the clock will start ticking down the 90 days. Still in the eu after the 90 days, you can be deported.
 

Ric

Well-known member
Joined
8 Dec 2003
Messages
1,723
Visit site
As I explained on the other Schengen thread, I have just discovered that my NZ passport gives me better access to EU than (currently) my UK passport gives. This is because prior to Schengen, NZ negotiated bilateral 90/180 day visas with just about every European country. When Schengen came along, nobody thought to cancel these treaties, so they still stand. So with my NZ passport, I can spend 90 days in France, then 90 days in Italy, 90 days back in France, 90 days anywhere else, for as long as I please (the only exception is Portugal, who ended their own national bilateral agreement with NZ, so Schengen 90/180 applies there).

This begs the question of whether the bilateral agreements that UK must have had with other European countries prior to UK entry to EU still stand? If they do, and they weren't cancelled, then maybe this might provide the basis for better UK access to Schengen.
 

nortada

Well-known member
Joined
24 May 2012
Messages
15,357
Location
Walton-on-the-Naze.
Visit site
As I explained on the other Schengen thread, I have just discovered that my NZ passport gives me better access to EU than (currently) my UK passport gives. This is because prior to Schengen, NZ negotiated bilateral 90/180 day visas with just about every European country. When Schengen came along, nobody thought to cancel these treaties, so they still stand. So with my NZ passport, I can spend 90 days in France, then 90 days in Italy, 90 days back in France, 90 days anywhere else, for as long as I please (the only exception is Portugal, who ended their own national bilateral agreement with NZ, so Schengen 90/180 applies there).

This begs the question of whether the bilateral agreements that UK must have had with other European countries prior to UK entry to EU still stand? If they do, and they weren't cancelled, then maybe this might provide the basis for better UK access to Schengen.
As one who is all for 183/365, I will be interested to see how you get on.
 
Top