Long term live-aboard cruising on European waterways cannot be over for us Brits

[Kelpie]

Oh yeah!

They Bloody well dont in Ireland!

I had to chase the HM in Baltimore to take my money - found him in the pub - and when we moved to across the small Marina on the other side they took the money in the pub.

The Landlord, after we had bought some drinks and a meal, looked out of the window and said " Sure 'an its just a little boat - have yer money back! "

It was a 38 footer, so not so little.

Covid allowing, we are going back!

Passports, reporting to the police - not on your life.

Eight years ago, we spent just over a fortnight in Ireland, never paid any harbour dues anywhere, couldn't find anybody to pay them to! Admittedly we didn't actually visit any marinas, just fishing harbours.

 

[sailaboutvic]

OK GUYSSSSSSS
Your talking as if it's the end of cruising, chill , the only two thing that going to stop you from cruising .
One if you can't be bothered to find your " own way " around it and there will be a way around it.
Two, if you keep stressing out and end up having a heart attack and kicking the bucket.

People who wanted to scare us just because there sh@tless kept says come Jan there be around checking passport and stamping us in the EU , the facts , it's now mid Feb and no one seen any one , the only reports of problem on any of the sailing and cruising forum are from people who gone off to the official to ask where they stand , if you look for problem your going to get them .

Our US NZ AUS even cruisers from China have managed to dance their way around the EU it's just take a little bit of imagination.

 

[nortada]

Are you forgetting that marinas report boat and crew details/passports to authorities every time you check in, regardless of country?

When a vessel arrives, nobody, other than the crew, nobody knows where it has come from so it is reasonable to request this information. Likewise, when you depart they will want to know your next port of call.

On both occasions you could lie but modern databases will make your fraudulent return easy to detect and then in addition to entering that country illegally, you could be also be charged with fraud.

Of course, you could not enter marinas or harbours but anchorages are regularly checked.

Not my idea of a relaxing lifestyle.

 

[sailaboutvic]

When a vessel arrives, nobody, other than the crew, nobody knows where it has come from so it is a reasonable to request this information. Likewise, when you depart they will want to know your next port of call.

On both occasions you could lie but modern databases will make your fraudulent return easy to detect and then in addition to entering that country illegally, you could be also be charged with fraud.

Of course, you could not enter marinas or harbours but anchorages are regularly checked.

Not my idea of a relaxing lifestyle.

I can't comment on Portugal as I not been there for a lot of years ,
but every other country we cruised I can't remember the last time we had a visit while at anchor min of four EU country's each year for the last five years .
If people want to get around the 90/180 rule , it's not going to be a relaxing lifestyle I'm sorry to say
Greece is going to be the problem because you have to pay the bloody tax and they going to be record of you going in .

 

[Tranona]

Are you forgetting that marinas report boat and crew details/passports to authorities every time you check in, regardless of country?

Do they check VAT "status"? That is what matters to determine whether a boat is entering under TA or RGR. This is customs rather than border control. TA requires third country registration of boat. Registration of boat is irrelevant for RGR. Now there will be many more British registered boats that are eligible for RGR. How is the clerk in the marina office going to tell the difference?

 

[nortada]

OK GUYSSSSSSS
Your talking as if it's the end of cruising, chill , the only two thing that going to stop you from cruising .
One if you can't be bothered to find your " own way " around it and there will be a way around it.
Two, if you keep stressing out and end up having a heart attack and kicking the bucket.

People who wanted to scare us just because there sh@tless kept says come Jan there be around checking passport and stamping us in the EU , the facts , it's now mid Feb and no one seen any one , the only reports of problem on any of the sailing and cruising forum are from people who gone off to the official to ask where they stand , if you look for problem your going to get them .

Our US NZ AUS even cruisers from China have managed to dance their way around the EU it's just take a little bit of imagination.

I look forward to hearing about “own way” around it, other than complying with the current 90/180 Schengen requirement by the crew leaving the EU for 90 in every 180.

In normal times very few boats cruise in the EU in mid Feb and now in the Covid induced lock down, many people are not even allowed to leave harbour so the assumption that there is no problem is premature. Once the lock down is lifted one aftermath of this pandemic will be vessel movements will be more closely monitored. Moreover, until 1 Apr, everybody is complying with the 90/180 requirement.

I think playing down future problems, with - ‘it will all be alright on the night’ is irrresponsible and could lead people into a false sense of security.

Dodging officialdom until it catches up with you and then trying to blag it is not my idea of stree free cruising.

Hopefully, Schengen will be amended to 183/365, when problems, for many, will go away but relationships between the EU and the U.K. will have to get a lot better for this to happen.

The halfway house is residency in the EU but post 31/12/20, this could have just become harder to come by.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I look forward to hearing about “own way” around it, other than complying with the current 90/180 Schengen requirement by the crew leaving the EU for 90 in every 180.

In normal times very few boats cruise in the EU in mid Feb and now in the Covid induced lock down, many people are not even allowed to leave harbour so the assumption that there is no problem is premature. Once the lock down is lifted one aftermath of this pandemic will be vessel movements will be more closely monitored. Moreover, until 1 Apr, everybody is complying with the 90/180 requirement.

I think playing down future problems, with - ‘it will all be alright on the night’ is irrresponsible and could lead people into a false sense of security.

Dodging officialdom until it catches up with you and then trying to blag it is not my idea of stree free cruising.

Hopefully, Schengen will be amended to 183/365, when problems, for many, will go away but relationships between the EU and the U.K. will have to get a lot better for this to happen.

The halfway house is residency in the EU but post 31/12/20, this could have just become harder to come by.

The option are quite straight forwards
You play by the rules ( what ever they are )
You don't play by the rules ( what ever they are )
Stay in your own country and live out your dreams there.
Stressing about it isn't the answer and too many here are going just that.

 

[nortada]

I can't comment on Portugal as I not been there for a lot of years ,
but every other country we cruised I can't remember the last time we had a visit while at anchor min of four EU country's each year for the last five years .
If people want to get around the 90/180 rule , it's not going to be a relaxing lifestyle I'm sorry to say
Greece is going to be the problem because you have to pay the bloody tax and they going to be record of you going in .

You don’t get visited, they just cruise by, note your presence and possibly enter it into their database for later reference. Unless you are wanted, you won’t even know it happened but post 1/4/21 you may just get a tap on the hull.

We are now living in a different era.

 

[nortada]

The option are quite straight forwards
You play by the rules ( what ever they are )
You don't play by the rules ( what ever they are )
Stay in your own country and live out your dreams there.
Stressing about it isn't the answer and too many here are going just that.

How do you not play by the rules (whatever they are) and avoid the consequences

 

[nortada]

Do they check VAT "status"? That is what matters to determine whether a boat is entering under TA or RGR. This is customs rather than border control. TA requires third country registration of boat. Registration of boat is irrelevant for RGR. Now there will be many more British registered boats that are eligible for RGR. How is the clerk in the marina office going to tell the difference?

All valid points but I think this thread is more about Schengen Rules than boat VAT and of course until 1/1/21 boat VAT wasn’t an issue.

Your last point - the clerk in the marina office is just going to record/scan just what she has been told to. Those further up the food change may take action. Increasing electronic tracking are going to make record keeping ever Easier and efficient.

 

[sailaboutvic]

How do you not play by the rules (whatever they are) and avoid the consequences

Third world country's cruisers have been doing it for many many years . But then there are not Brits, first question a brits ask ,when they arrive is where the PP office the first question a Ozzie ask is , where the best bar .

 

[syvictoria]

Third world country's cruisers have been doing it for many many years . But then there are not Brits, first question a brits ask ,when they arrive is where the PP office the first question a Ozzie ask is , where the best bar .

You keep telling us this, but never any specifics! The very real and documented consequence of overstaying in Schengen is being barred from future re-entry. Most - any sane person, I would argue - will not be willing to risk this. Especially if being deported leaves your boat/home in the EU without you!

 

[Poignard]

You keep telling us this, but never any specifics! The very real and documented consequence of overstaying in Schengen is being barred from future re-entry. Most - any sane person, I would argue - will not be willing to risk this. Especially if being deported leaves your boat/home in the EU without you!

Exactly!

My boat is kept in France, and has been since 2014. My wife and I travel into and out of France on Brittany Ferries. Our arrivals and departures will be recorded, and cannot be concealed. As things now stand we can only spend 90 out of 180 days in France whereas before Brexit we could stay as long as we wished, and we did so.

I hope we will be able, albeit at some trouble and expense, to get a visa each year allowing my wife and I to exceed the Schengen limit.

That is a lessening of our freedom to do as we please that results solely from Brexit; that utterly senseless act of national self-harm.

 

[syvictoria]

I hope we will be able, albeit at some trouble and expense, to get a visa each year allowing my wife and I to exceed the Schengen limit.

We're going to have to get married/civil partnered to facilitate 'our' continued FoM!!! After a happy 25 years unmarried, that's certainly an 'unnecessary' consequence of Brexit!

 

[Poignard]

We're going to have to get married/civil partnered to facilitate 'our' continued FoM!!! After a happy 25 years unmarried, that's certainly an 'unnecessary' consequence of Brexit!

Congratulations! Take heart from the fact that Covid restrictions will excuse you from incurring the expense of a fancy wedding.

 

[Nom de plume]

Respectfully suggest you are living in cloud cuckoo land. The rules have not reverted to pre 1990. There is no such thing as check in checkout at individual borders. Most of Europe is governed by Schengen and there is only one check in when you enter Schengen and one check out when you leave. The maximum time between the 2 events is 90 days out of 180 days. then you must leave the Schengen area and not re-enter for 90 days to start your next 90/180 period. Clearly if you are cruising Europe the places where you can spend the 90 days out with your boat are extremely limited.

Therefore, as I said, you need to follow (and base your plans) on the 2021 rules as they are, not the rules as you wish them to be - it's not difficult, and I'm not saying anymore than that.

 

[syvictoria]

Therefore, as I said, you need to follow (and base your plans) on the 2021 rules as they are, not the rules as you wish them to be - it's not difficult, and I'm not saying anymore than that.

Thank you for your contribution!

 

[Poignard]

Deleted

 

[Twister_Ken]

France - long stay visa - my translation of France's documentary requirements for applying for one...

• Identity photograph.
• If you are not a national of your country of residence then proof of your legal residence in that country, such as a residence permit.
• A travel document (presumably a passport), less than ten years old, with at least two blank pages (which suggests that France will either stamp or stick a visa into the passport), valid for at least three months longer than the expiry date of the requested visa.
• A statement of the purpose of the visit, including a commitment not to undertake any professional activity in France, accompanied if necessary by an explanatory letter on your project.
• Proof of your socio-economic situation.
• Medical insurance covering the entire duration of the stay. The insurance must be valid for the entire period of validity of the visa.
• Proof of the place of residence in France such as a lease contract or title deed. If necessary, an explanatory letter in the event of a particular situation.
• A bank statement less than three months old in the name and address of the applicant, including details and a balance indicating that the applicant has sufficient means of subsistence, both for the duration of the intended stay and for his return: or traveller's checks showing the same elements as those referred to above.
• If the applicant is receiving financial support from a spouse, also the marriage certificate and bank statements from spouse.

Cost 99 euros (which must be paid in local currency).

 

[nortada]

Back to this thread.

The OP wants to review continued opportunities to explore EU inland waterways post Brexit.

Leaving to one side all VAT issues, I think it will be bordering on impossible to evade the Schengen 90/180 rule so another solution could be to get residency in your main cruising country and then cruise, with far fewer limitations. You could operate freely in your host country then cruise into other Schengen countries for up to 90 days, before you (not your boat), return to the UK or your host country.

Practical example:-

April/May Drive/fly from the UK to boat in host or another EU country.
May Boat around host country.
Next 90 days (May,June & July) Cruise in any other Schengen Country.
Aug, Sep, Oct Back to cruise you host country or leave the boat elsewhere to rejoin in 90 days (or more).

Clearly tons more options on this theme and if I were going down this road I would use a camper van to travel to and from the boat, so see even more of Europe.

One bonus (Covid permitting) would be to be able to travel freely between the UK and your host country.