laptop

[baroque]

I'm sailing from Sweden , in order to liveaboard in Brighton, this year.
I'm looking to buy a laptop. Are there any particular specifications I should look for when buying one for boat use?I'll be using it mainly for writing, emails, Internet and reading charts.
All tips welcome!

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[Talbot]

type of laptop depends on exactly what programme you intend to run. Newer laptops do not have a serial port, so you need to run a USB/Serial port converter.
To avoid this, a laptop less than 1Gb is the best. The more capable programmes with higher graphics needs require >500meg chip. However the lower end programmes have apparently been run on 486 machines. The lower the spec the longer the battery will last normally, and if you can get one that has a mobile spec chip, that will be better.

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[AuntyRinum]

Why does he need to run a USB/Serial port converter? He may not have any hardware that requires a serial port. From the things he says he needs to do, it wouldn't appear so and all modern laptops have USB ports and parallel ports for printers et al.
The answer is to buy the most high spec laptop you can afford, which will see you into the future. Battery consumption is not an issue in Brighton Marina as all the pontoons have mains power and you can run your laptop from that.
Make sure you buy one which is compatible with 240V

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[Talbot]

It does not require the wisdom of Solomon to recognise that anyone who intends to have a laptop onboard semi-permanently will end up installing at least some form of chart system. In order to get the best out of that system, he will then want to connect a GPS.

AFAIK most GPS connect via the serial port!

No modern laptop has a serial port

Battery consumption is always a concern if you intend to use the boat away from the marina, and use the laptop for navigation.

Of course if you are one of those people whose boat appears to be welded to the pontoon, my comments were a waste of my valueable time and experience /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[robind]

Hi Jacqueline!

The members of this forum are not usually that grumpy! )), sorry about that !
( I suppose now you will get them back on saying " who does he think he is apologising for my actions").

For me I would have a WIFI faclilty so that I could make use of the "square mile" system that is already available at Brighton Marina . There is also a Beach Cafe that advertises free access to the internet via WIFI. So imagine sitting in the sun drinking a Coffe and communicating?. The pontoons at Brighton can also have a telephone line available for your use (extra cost) should you so require it. I hope this helps?
Kind regards

Robin, Brighton

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rejuvanu.com>RejuVanu</A>

 

[Anonymous]

Totally agree, but would point out that Square Mile specifically state that their marina systems might not work with many internal Wi Fi interfaces and recommend that users buy an external interface, available from marina offices where Square Mile operate.

I'm about to go down exactly the same path and am also trying to choose a suitable spec laptop.

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[Anonymous]

I'm in a very similar position and I will go for a top-spec machine. The total power needed is pretty low, anyway, and I don't want to be working with antique hardware or software. I am thinking of getting a 'tablet' notebook that lets you write on it using MS Notes. A client of mine gave me a demo the other week and I was very impressed. Someone, is it Philips?, makes a completely waterproof laptop but I don't know the cost. I don't know if the handwriting software will work on PC charts - but that would be wonderful. If you are going to Brighton and want Square Mile's Wi Fi, check the square mile website to check which interfaces will work, or write to them. http://www.squaremileinternational.com

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[davidbains]

A pretty basic laptop will be fine on a boat. Get one that does requires a DC input, not AC, then you won't have to run a noisy interfering inverter, but a simpler DC/DC converter such as are used in cars. Robustness is good! A lot of skippers used Toshibas which required 15volts.
Look at the Marine Computing International and Cactus websites.
A very small minority (including myself) use Mac I Books.
I live above Brighton Marina ( although my boat's in Greece).
Let us know when you arrive.

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[kesey]

I saw a couple of nice mini-computer setups at the Paris show.

One was at http://www.telephonesatellite.com

In each case, the vendors were claiming <1.5 amp usage for the mini-computer.

Re Emsilon: In order to keep power consumption down, and heat generation (machine does not have a fan), the processor is relatively slow (1Mhz or so), but well capable of running any app. one might throw at it. It is stated to be "marinised". The advantage in using such machines, as I see it, is that they are less vulnerable than a laptop i.e. one can site the computers in a good location, and "nail down" one's LCD screen.

I saw the Emsilon working and it was very neat. It was set up with the Nasa Target HF3/M SSB receiver and was getting some nice synoptic charts in. As far as I remember, the guy was running Maptech on the computer as a Chart-plotting application. It has a DVD player etc installed. This is pretty knacky given the size of the unit.

The GME mini-computer looks less rugged but no doubt would do the job.

Downsides? It is handy to be able to grab your laptop and take it home when you arrive ashore. One will buy a laptop a lot cheaper than either of the above setups.

Main upsides: size, designed to run off 12v, easy to install in a location where it will not become an onboard missile.

Any thoughts?

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[kesey]

Re my last post on the mini-computer, here's a blurb from Le Figaro.

Tout en un grâce à l’ordinateur

Route, météo, communications ou sécurité, aujourd’hui, tout peut être accessible à l’écran en deux clics de souris.
LA CARTE MARINE, le compass à pointes sèches, le crayon et la gomme disparaissent des tables à cartes. A bord de près d’un bateau de croisière sur deux, un ordinateur, généralement portable, fait office de couteau Suisse de la vie en mer. La route, la météorologie, les télécommunications, la sécurité mais aussi la surveillance des moteurs, la maintenance du bateau, meme l’avitaillement du bord, tout peut être géré sur un écran et accessible en deux clics de souris.

Au XXIe siècle comme au temps de Marco Polo, il faut : savoir où l’on est, choisir une route en fonction de son bateau et de la météo, tenir son journal de bord, etc. Seuls les moyens sont différents. La carte marine électronique s’affiche à l’écran. Elle a été scannée depuis un document traditionnel en papier ou complètement recréée à partir d’une banque de données numériques des côtes, des fonds marins, des amers, des phares, etc. Tous les grands services hydrographiques mondiaux produisent de tells fichiers stockés sur Cédéroms. Sur le moniteur apparaît une palette d’outils accessible à la souris. Ce sont toujours un crayon, un compas pour calculer cap et distance, une loupe pour mieux examiner une zone délicate. La préparation de la navigation s’effectue à bord mais souvent aussi chez soi ou dans le TGV en rejoignant le port, grace au PC portable. Connecté à Internet – c’est maintenant possible en mer –, l’ordinateur peut alors superposer la carte météorologique sur celle de la route.

En Manche et en Atlantique, un atlas spécial prend en compte les courants en fonction de l’heure de la marée. Mieux, le programme recalcule la route en function des performances du bateau puis simule la navigation une fois l’heure de départ choisie. Au capitaine de valider la trajectoire proposée et à l’équipage de hisser les voiles !

Sur l’eau, tous les parameters peuvent être centralisés sur l’ordinateur : la force et la direction du vent, la position, le cap et la vitesse du bateau donnés par le GPS, la distance et l’heure de passage prévues à la prochaine bouée. Même les échos des autres bateaux, captés par le radar, peuvent être incrustés sur la carte et montrer s’il y a un risque de collision.
Le PC gère aussi les telecommunications et choisit le moyen le mieux adapté à la situation. Au port ou près de la côte, ce peut être le GSM ou le GPRS des téléphones mobiles et même le WiFi, l’Internet sans fil qui arose maintenant les pontons depuis une antenne perchée sur la capitainerie.

Au large, les communications vocales et les transferts de données font appel aux liaisons par satellites avec Iridium ou Inmarsat dont les nouvelles generations Fleet 33 ou 55 sont bien adaptées à la plaisance. « Avec tous ces équipements, j’ai l’impression de garder un fil à la patte et de ne jamais vraiment larguer les amarres », regrette un puriste du loch et du sextant. « Je n’en retiens que le côté positif, rétorque un chef d’entreprise, même à 200 milles des côtes, je continue à suivre mes dossiers. Je navigue plus agréablement sachant ce qui se passe et avec moins de stress au retour au bureau. »


Le matériel nécessaire

Ordinateur. Un PC portable classique sous Windows 2000 ou XP fait l’affaire. Il faudra
prévoir une alimentation 220 volts fournie par un convertisseur car la tension du bord est rarement compatible avec celle de l’ordinateur. GME Telecom propose un mini-PC 12 volts à 2 200 € qui ménage les batteries du bord et consomme moins d’un ampère ; il comporte quatre ports série et trois ports USB intéressants pour raccorder les autres instruments (GPS, speedomètre, anémomètre, radar). Le clavier étanche est conseillé pour résister non pas aux projections d’eau mais aux doigts mouillés. On peut éventuellement protéger un clavier classique avec du papier Cellophane alimentaire. Choisir un écran plat TFT comme le Himind 15’’(600 €) qui fonctionne, lui aussi, en 12 et en 220 volts. Un PC « durci » étanche coûte cher, près de 6 000 €, qui se justifient peu sur un appareil renouvelé tous les deux à quatre ans.

Cartographie. MaxSea est devenu le logiciel de navigation de référence, l’équivalent de MS Office pour la mer. La version 11 sort au Salon nautique. Une solution complète avec les liens météo (NavCenter) adaptés au programme de navigation coûte 1 000 €. Il faut ajouter 180 € par zone (le golfe de Gascogne, par exemple) pour accéder à trente cartes (routiers et détails).

T.l.communications. Au port et le long des côtes, on peut utiliser son téléphone mobile GSM ou mieux GPRS (Orange, SFR ou Bouygues) avec un modem pour se connecter à Internet. Au large, un Iridium, portable ou fixe, revient à 1 600 € ; il n’y a pas d’abonnement annuel mais des cartes prépayées à 1,50 €/min. Pour avoir un accès à plus haut débit (64 Ko comme une ligne terrestre Numéris), Inmarsat Fleet 55 coûte 17 000 € d’investissement, puis 2 €/min.




Ecran, clavier et souris se généralisent sur les tables à cartes des bateaux de croisière.



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[Talbot]

There are an increasing number of small laptops (really a cross between PDA and handheld with approx 10" screen These offer much better battery life and can even include combo DVD/CDRW drives. However they are expensive and the small screen is not so good for navigation. example <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.techtv.com/news/products/story/0,24195,3462361,00.html>http://www.techtv.com/news/products/story/0,24195,3462361,00.html</A>

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[Talbot]

Not Grumpy, and more than willing to listen to all sorts of advice, but when a laptop is required for a boat and an "adviser" does not recognise the problems inherent in a non-serial port fitted laptop, then I felt a need to spell out the problem in simpler terms.

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[AuntyRinum]

"Of course if you are one of those people whose boat appears to be welded to the pontoon, my comments were a waste of my valueable time and experience"

As you've decided to get personal I should declare that your advice to get a low spec laptop is probably the worst IT advice I've seen on here for a long time and as for the final remark, well, we're honoured to have the benefit of all that experience.
We all regard our time as valuable, but don't mind offering some free advice if we know what we're talking about.

I work in the IT business, I have a boat at Brighton Marina and I use a laptop on it, I also sail the boat regularly with the laptop, so I think I'm well qualified to answer this question.

The correct advice should always be to buy the highest spec laptop possible.

Battery power is not an issue if you run from boat batteries when not attached to shore power. Have a look at:

http://jimthompson.net/boating/ECharting/Laptop.htm

With regard to the WiFi advice in the other posts, it's a solution but there is always a question mark over the available bandwidth.
All of the berths at Brighton can have a landline connection so a BT Broadband connection is the better solution.


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[kesey]

Brett, a few questions if I may:

1: How do you tie down the laptop, so that it doesn't take flight in rough seas?

2: How frail would the laptop-hinges be? I take it that if one is leaving the laptop on while one is going up to the cockpit, that one would always close the screen down upon the keyboard?

Battery power should not be a problem with a laptop. Particularly if one uses a DC Power Adapter such as Dell sell: the LLpower one for instance <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.llpower.com>http://www.llpower.com</A>
That plugs into the cigarette-lighter type socket.

I've been running Maptech on my laptop at home for a couple of years. It is pretty handy. I bought charts for Ireland and Brittany. The tidal info is useful; charts are raster and not as hot as vector, but useful nonetheless. I have not yet tried it on the boat, as I've been happy enough with the chartplotter on board. The screen on that is only 5 1/4"..so the laptop 15" would be a pleasant change. The laptop would have many other potential uses t, eg, downloading weather charts, so I would like to use it on board..once I know how to keep it alive.

I am getting a new boat which will have a Raymarine 80CRC in the cockpit..and C Map NT charts. I would like to link the chartplotter to the laptop so that I can do the planning down below, via Raytech if Raytech 5.0 (presently vapourware but due out in April) turns out to be good.

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[AuntyRinum]

I have to say that I don't tie down my laptop in rough sea and rely on the chart table fiddles to stop it from hitting the cabin sole. It seems to work but is not a perfect situation. I did once see a setup where somebody had screwed a docking station to their chart table and fixed the laptop into it.

I agree with you that the hinges seem to be the most vulnerable point and yes, I keep the screen closed when not in use.

The ideal of course is to buy a laptop that is designed to take punishment, usually referred to as a rugged laptop. They're used by construction workers, the military, field geologists etc.

If you do a search on

http://uk.search.yahoo.com or probably any search engine,

with the search phrase "rugged laptops" you'll find a lot of information on them

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[bullen]

We have just bought a laptop with a seriel port, this company will create the laptop you need. Its an AJP D480W
jan

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[MainlySteam]

<<<an "adviser" does not recognise the problems inherent in a non-serial port fitted laptop>>>

What problems?

I run multiple applications/systems with serial connectivity including electronic chart systems, Short Message Service, GPRS, data modem over GSM, Multimode Controller (to ssb for Pactor, RTTY, Sitor) on a notebook on board without serial ports and have no problems whatsoever.

The only trick is to know what one is doing.

I fully agree with BrettH - one should buy the highest spec new machine one can afford. An old machine is always a bad investment.

John


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[Abigail]

Hi - we are planning to copy a set up we saw n another boat in Mallorca, which had a flat screen and wireless keyboard on the nav station, which meant you could stow the Laptop away securely anywhere with adeuqate ventilation, which was v secure.

BTW - we have tried Square Mile and never succeeded in connecting here in Brighton - and we know that our laptops (apple and PC) work round other wifi networks. We do have broadband on the pontoon, and, like the electricity, unplug it to go saiing. At sea, at the moment, we use a mobile connection.



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[Anonymous]

Square Mile specifically state that their system may not work satisfactorily with regular Wi Fi interfaces and they suggest that you use their own external interface which you can purchase from marinas that belong to their network for around £150.

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[Talbot]

retires licking wounds /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

final parting shot:

Battery power is a problem if you are doing long passages, but not if you are only considering popping across to France. If this question had been on PBO forum, I would agree with you all. However this is posed on the liveaboard forum, where some actually go further afield. I have been working out my energy budget for such a voyage, and battery useage is a concern. But if that is not for you, go ahead and buy what you want!

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