King’s Quay Creek - Foreshore Access

bdh198

Active member
Joined
28 Sep 2011
Messages
358
Location
Solent
Visit site
A couple of weeks ago we anchored off King’s Quay Creek on the Isle of Wight. As it was near low water we weren’t able to take the rib into the creek itself. Aware that it is an SSSI and that there are large signs making it clear landing is not permitted we took the rib further east along the coast towards the holiday lodge. We made the rib fast to a large rock well below the high water mark and then wondered along the coast towards the creek remaining below the high water mark. As we turned the corner into the creek we were met by two people associated with one of the farms that adjoins the east side of the creek who then gave us the proverbial “get off my land”. I did question whether the fact we were remaining below the MHWM meant we were not actually on “their land”. The response was that I was wrong and the farm estate owned all the land right across the creek. At the time I wasn’t sure of the legal position so we politely retreated from “their land”.

Having now had a chance to look into the situation I am not sure if they were right. The Crown Estate Foreshore Map clearly shows the foreshore in the creek (and continuing a long way inland) between MLWS and MHWS as being Crown Estate and gives what it calls "general permissive consent" for non-commercial public access along the foreshore. This map look like it is reasonably accurate as it clearly shows (correctly) Osbourne Bay just to the west as not being Crown Estate and therefore the landowner being able to restrict anyone coming ashore from the Solent.

I know the area in King‘s Quay Creek is an SSSI, but this doesn’t appear to exclude walking along the foreshore (unless the recreational activity is “likely to damage the fauna, flora or geological interest” - Ref. No. 27). See Operations requiring Natural England’s consent: King's Quay SSSI

Does anyone happen to know what the legal position is with access to the foreshore in the creek? Do the adjoining land owners have a legal right to exclude access to the foreshore? Does the fact it is an SSSI restrict access to the foreshore (the operations requiring consent certainly don’t seem to support that)? Or are the signs “No Landing” simply erected by a troublesome landowner who can’t actually stop you from landing provided you remain below the MHWM?

I am aware there have been issues in the past about navigating into the creek, but this question is more concerned with the foreshore access in the creek.
 
Last edited:

Giblets

Well-known member
Joined
5 Mar 2006
Messages
9,254
Location
Surrey
Visit site
I suppose it is possible that the Crown Estate has leased the foreshore to the farm as they do occasionally elsewhere according to their blurb. The areas on the map do seem a bit 'messy' in relation to the actual area of the creek.
 

bdh198

Active member
Joined
28 Sep 2011
Messages
358
Location
Solent
Visit site
To know for sure I‘ll probably need to ask the Crown Estate if there is any lease granted over that part of the foreshore.
 
Joined
6 May 2020
Messages
1,324
Visit site
I don't know the answer but if there's someone there motivated to tell all comers to get off his land I'd just find somewhere more peaceful to walk.
 

AndrewL

Member
Joined
20 Jun 2014
Messages
189
Location
Cowes, Isle of Wight
Visit site
I am not a born and bred islander, but in my experience that little corner of the island is a bit weird. If you walk along the north bank of Wootton Creek and then head North once you reach the coast you come across some very strange houses. Lots of security, fences and gates, 'beware of the lion' type signs, not professionally done, more in the style of redneck 'prepper'.

On my last walk there, all on marked public footpaths, I was half expecting someone with lots of big dogs to shout 'get orf my land'
 

Timhire

New member
Joined
26 Jan 2021
Messages
3
Visit site
A couple of weeks ago we anchored off King’s Quay Creek on the Isle of Wight. As it was near low water we weren’t able to take the rib into the creek itself. Aware that it is an SSSI and that there are large signs making it clear landing is not permitted we took the rib further east along the coast towards the holiday lodge. We made the rib fast to a large rock well below the high water mark and then wondered along the coast towards the creek remaining below the high water mark. As we turned the corner into the creek we were met by two people associated with one of the farms that adjoins the east side of the creek who then gave us the proverbial “get off my land”. I did question whether the fact we were remaining below the MHWM meant we were not actually on “their land”. The response was that I was wrong and the farm estate owned all the land right across the creek. At the time I wasn’t sure of the legal position so we politely retreated from “their land”.

Having now had a chance to look into the situation I am not sure if they were right. The Crown Estate Foreshore Map clearly shows the foreshore in the creek (and continuing a long way inland) between MLWS and MHWS as being Crown Estate and gives what it calls "general permissive consent" for non-commercial public access along the foreshore. This map look like it is reasonably accurate as it clearly shows (correctly) Osbourne Bay just to the west as not being Crown Estate and therefore the landowner being able to restrict anyone coming ashore from the Solent.

I know the area in King‘s Quay Creek is an SSSI, but this doesn’t appear to exclude walking along the foreshore (unless the recreational activity is “likely to damage the fauna, flora or geological interest” - Ref. No. 27). See Operations requiring Natural England’s consent: King's Quay SSSI

Does anyone happen to know what the legal position is with access to the foreshore in the creek? Do the adjoining land owners have a legal right to exclude access to the foreshore? Does the fact it is an SSSI restrict access to the foreshore (the operations requiring consent certainly don’t seem to support that)? Or are the signs “No Landing” simply erected by a troublesome landowner who can’t actually stop you from landing provided you remain below the MHWM?

I am aware there have been issues in the past about navigating into the creek, but this question is more concerned with the foreshore access in the creek.
I have recently come across this post having taken over the custodianship of the farm that sits on the eastern shore of Kings Quay. The farm has been in my family for 35 years.

First and foremost I'd like to apologise if you were met with any hostility from a member of my family who gave you the proverbial "get off my land". We had several instances last year of people who blatantly ignored notices informing them where the land is private (I'm not implying you were one of these as it was primarily with regards to the navigation of the creek). The question of access to the lagoon above the causeway in Kings Quay prompted me to contact The Crown Estate at the end of 2020 to clarify the situation. They put me in touch with their agents, Knight Frank, and I supplied their Marine Department with a copy of our title deeds from HM Land Registry to justify our stanceScreen Shot 2021-01-26 at 09.27.01.png.

As you can see from The Crown Estate Foreshore and Estuary Map the mudflats and salt marsh sit outside The Crown Estate within this area and it's just the channel at MLWS that is covered by the purple colouring. If you go just around the corner to the east you'll see the colouring goes up as far as the MHWS. Please be assured that as the landowners we do not mean to be intentionally awkward with our signage but the No Landing signs are there to make people aware of the ownership situation but primarily to protect what has recently been described by the AONB as the last unspoilt inlet on The Solent. This SSSI and Ramsar site is a haven for wading birds many of whom have been disturbed by people landing and walking through nesting areas.

I will reply to the topic of the navigation of the creek above the causeway on the specific thread dealing with it.
 

bdh198

Active member
Joined
28 Sep 2011
Messages
358
Location
Solent
Visit site
Thank you, that helps to make the position much clearer. I suspect one of the problems leading to the confusion is that for years (decades) the yachting press has identified Kings Quay as a “secrete anchorage”, but never clearly explained where the rights of access end. In reality, you’d need a pretty shallow draft boat to remain below MLWS and avoid the risk of drying out above it.

Now that the site had been identified as an SSSI it’s all the more important people know what they shouldn’t be doing in the area, and there is probably an argument that anchoring/visiting should be discouraged?

I’ll look forward to seeing your post on the position regarding navigation of the creek above the causeway, although I have no intention of visiting and risking a trespass/interfering with the SSSI now I know the position.
 

Timhire

New member
Joined
26 Jan 2021
Messages
3
Visit site
Thank you, I'm pleased if it helped.

Certainly not looking to discourage anyone from visiting this beautiful part of The Solent but as you mention perhaps there is a need for some clarity on where the public access ends along with highlighting the sensitivity of the area due to its SSSI and Ramsar status. Kind regards
 

DJE

Well-known member
Joined
21 Jun 2004
Messages
7,612
Location
Fareham
www.casl.uk.com
Now that the site had been identified as an SSSI it’s all the more important people know what they shouldn’t be doing in the area, and there is probably an argument that anchoring/visiting should be discouraged?
Better stay away from Bealieu, Newtown. Lymington, Hamble, Etc too. More than half of the Solent shoreline is SSSI.
Sites of Special Scientific Interest (England)
 

girlofwight

Active member
Joined
18 Feb 2010
Messages
236
Location
Isle of Wight
Visit site
Thank you, I'm pleased if it helped.

Certainly not looking to discourage anyone from visiting this beautiful part of The Solent but as you mention perhaps there is a need for some clarity on where the public access ends along with highlighting the sensitivity of the area due to its SSSI and Ramsar status. Kind regards

So how is that going to fit in with the proposed realignment of the Coastal Path, Tim? This seems to have gone quiet?
 

Timhire

New member
Joined
26 Jan 2021
Messages
3
Visit site
So how is that going to fit in with the proposed realignment of the Coastal Path, Tim? This seems to have gone quiet?
We have been engaged with Natural England for several years now but the route between Wootton and East Cowes is still being negotiated with landowners. Be good to see it resolved this year,
 
Top