Jeanneau 409 or Dufour 405 for long range family cruising

[sailswim]

We are a family of 4, looking for a 3-cabin cruiser for a gap-year liveaboard adventure starting in 2021. Destinations to include Carribbean, perhaps Panama / Galapagos, Vancouver. I'd love to hear from those with more knowledge of the above boats. I have sailed a Rival34 for a number of years - I love the boat but the other family members justifiably are keen on something roomier with a few extra conveniences. Other boats considered around the £100k to £120k budget. Thanks!

 

[Quiddle]

Much of a muchness, really. Boat condition rather than model is far more relevant.
Assuming you're starting from UK, Vancouver is extremely ambitious in a year if you want to cruise, rather than endure and even the Carribean would impose unnecessary stress.
UK to Canaries or W Med would be my choice for a 12 month break and more suited to your boat ideas where tankage would be an issue with 4 on board.

 

[sailswim]

good points, thanks. Early days in terms of making plans. The places we get to may be more determined by how long we want to stop and explore along the way. A winter transatlantic crossing and a return via the Azores would also be very satisfying and achievable in the academic year (the kids are school-going age but we would not plan on keeping up with schoolwork, intending to take a year out). The crew could fly home if a return crossing wasn't their idea of fun.

 

[SarahJ]

We had a Jeanneau 409 in Greece that was under charter in summer months. sailed well but very little storage for long term living. Definitely consider storage for all your stuff. Also the swimming platform always needed adjusting and the ladder, by that I mean moving the through bolt every few months. My preference would be a larger older Jeanneau, maybe 45.2, without the swimming platform. Or maybe an older boat like a Moody....

 

[RupertW]

We had a Jeanneau 409 in Greece that was under charter in summer months. sailed well but very little storage for long term living. Definitely consider storage for all your stuff. Also the swimming platform always needed adjusting and the ladder, by that I mean moving the through bolt every few months. My preference would be a larger older Jeanneau, maybe 45.2, without the swimming platform. Or maybe an older boat like a Moody....

We have a 42.2 and agree that the older models are less prone to extreme weather helm when heeled as the hull is a more traditional shape, but they do look very dated now. Storage feels good to us - possibly too good as we must weigh an extra ton or two.

 

[ashtead]

Not certain either of those boats would be on my list in those destinations but have you considered looking at US made boats . Clearly lots of ideas of boats to use on utube and there is cruisers forum for the us market. I guess trying chartering each make though might be a way of discovering any issues. One guiding factor to my mind would be tankage and if any available vessels have genset ,water maker etc so as a starter maybe draw up a list of priority items and use this as opposed to getting fixed on a brand. It all turns with these older boats on what you will need to spend by way of new engine,rigging, sails, plus all the electric gizmos but finding a vessel which has been kitted out is a good way to go and speaking to a good broker -there’s Jonic who posts on this forum and the type of yachts on brokerage he has might be food for thought.

 

[sailswim]

Thanks Guys. Coming from a 1978 Rival the Jeanneau 42.2 doesn't look very dated to me and I would have no qualms about setting off in a quality 20-year old boat. The budget would go a lot further too.

 

[RupertW]

Thanks Guys. Coming from a 1978 Rival the Jeanneau 42.2 doesn't look very dated to me and I would have no qualms about setting off in a quality 20-year old boat. The budget would go a lot further too.

If you do go for one, I’m happy to answer any questions about the things I’ve enjoyed fixing over the last 10 years.

 

[Kelpie]

Not answering the OP's question itself, but if you aren't already a member consider joining 'Kids4sail' on Facebook- a wealth of information about cruising as a family.

 

[geem]

With your timescale i would rule out the Vancouver option. The reckognised route from Panama is Marquesas, Hawaii, Vancouver. About 9000nm. The trip up the coast from Panama is the other option but its really tough. Against wind and current for 2500nm

 

[Sailfree]

Have you considered any boats from the Jeanneau DS range.

Much more storage and lighter more airy inside.

We have lived on our Jeanneau 43DS for over a year now In Nazare while we are having our new house built. While I suspect modern designs are faster they are lighter with less materials used in their build.

The DS range sailed better than the conventional Sun Odyssey for any given length as it has the diesel and water right over the Keel bolts with its raised floor. I ordered mine with a fully battened main.

 

[Norman_E]

We had a Jeanneau 409 in Greece that was under charter in summer months. sailed well but very little storage for long term living. Definitely consider storage for all your stuff. Also the swimming platform always needed adjusting and the ladder, by that I mean moving the through bolt every few months. My preference would be a larger older Jeanneau, maybe 45.2, without the swimming platform. Or maybe an older boat like a Moody....

I can tell you, from owning one, that the Jeanneau 45.2 would be an excellent choice. 3 cabin "owner" versions are fairly rare, but the 4 cabin "charter" version offers 4 good cabins with the option to remove the partition between the forward ones to create a huge master cabin, or keep the 4 cabin layout and use one of the aft cabins as a storage space. A decent hull shape and a strong masthead rig make it sail well. Having lost a year's sailing this year I want to get another year or two in mine, otherwise it might have been for sale.

 

[Sailfree]

I can tell you, from owning one, that the Jeanneau 45.2 would be an excellent choice. 3 cabin "owner" versions are fairly rare, but the 4 cabin "charter" version offers 4 good cabins with the option to remove the partition between the forward ones to create a huge master cabin, or keep the 4 cabin layout and use one of the aft cabins as a storage space. A decent hull shape and a strong masthead rig make it sail well. Having lost a year's sailing this year I want to get another year or two in mine, otherwise it might have been for sale.

I have that feature on our 43DS but never used it! The bunk bed cabin is our store room. Is the 45.2 achievable with a £100k - £120k budget?

 

[Norman_E]

I have that feature on our 43DS but never used it! The bunk bed cabin is our store room. Is the $5.2 achievable with a £100k - £120k budget?

Easily within that budget. I have seen ones on sale asking the top end of that but I think mine might make somewhere around 80K in Euros, so less in Sterling if I put it on the market now, and mine is well maintained and equipped and has good sails. I think some sellers have an inflated view of what a boat will actually sell for.

 

[Sailfree]

Easily within that budget. I have seen ones on sale asking the top end of that but I think mine might make somewhere around 80K in Euros, so less in Sterling if I put it on the market now, and mine is well maintained and equipped and has good sails. I think some sellers have an inflated view of what a boat will actually sell for.

What year of boat are we talking about. Out of touch regarding current secondhand prices.

 

[Norman_E]

What year of boat are we talking about. Out of touch regarding current secondhand prices.

The Jeanneau 45.2 was replaced by the new 45 model around 2002. My boat dates from 1998, so is now 22 years old. As others have said, condition is more important than age. There is a large selection of adverts here, at prices from as low as 60K Euros to more than double that. The cheapest one has probably been in charter all its life and the photos of its interior are those of a new boat, probably from the original brochure!
Used Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45.2 for sale (Sailing Boats) | TheYachtMarket

 

[Cloud 5]

We are a family of 4, looking for a 3-cabin cruiser for a gap-year liveaboard adventure starting in 2021. Destinations to include Carribbean, perhaps Panama / Galapagos, Vancouver. I'd love to hear from those with more knowledge of the above boats. I have sailed a Rival34 for a number of years - I love the boat but the other family members justifiably are keen on something roomier with a few extra conveniences. Other boats considered around the £100k to £120k budget. Thanks!

Have you considered an Elan 45 impression ( 3 cabin ) , excellent boat

 

[Sailfree]

Have you considered an Elan 45 impression ( 3 cabin ) , excellent boat

I always looked at boats on the charter market to judge durability. Spoke to the people that maintained Charter boats. Bavaria and Jeanneau did well but Elans were always vulnerable. Heavy use on charter market soon sorts the weaker boats out.

We did look at the Elan 43DS - very attractive package but I have bough 3 new boats and had many problems with Volvo parts (gearbox, engine, clutch and propeller on 2 of them so for 3rd boat it had to be a Yanmar. Elans used Volvos when we last bought new.

 

[Cloud 5]

I always looked at boats on the charter market to judge durability. Spoke to the people that maintained Charter boats. Bavaria and Jeanneau did well but Elans were always vulnerable. Heavy use on charter market soon sorts the weaker boats out.

We did look at the Elan 43DS - very attractive package but I have bough 3 new boats and had many problems with Volvo parts (gearbox, engine, clutch and propeller on 2 of them so for 3rd boat it had to be a Yanmar. Elans used Volvos when we last bought new.

That’s interesting I have a marine surveyor friend who rates Elan way ahead of jeanneau & Bev .

 

[Sailfree]

That’s interesting I have a marine surveyor friend who rates Elan way ahead of jeanneau & Bev .

that a personal preference. I had my boat on charter and when replacing it asked my then current charter co and a few others speaking both to the managers and the people that repaired the boats and that was he advice i got.

IIRC one was looking at a new Elan at SIBS and just with punters poking about a number of the cabin locker hinges were broken.

My Jeanneau 43 DS is now 15yrs old and was on charter for 11yrs with Hamble Point Yacht Charters. We are currently living on it having sailed it to Nazare. Proof of the pudding and all that.

Bit like smoking really there is always one that smokes 40 a day and lives to 90!