Is wind vane steering necessary....

[Brent Swain]

Yes, my book has drawings for my wind vane ,anchor winch , furler, engine driven watermaker, engine driven welder, composting head, Lavac type head, in fact anything Ian think of , of use to low budget cruisers. .

 

[A1Sailor]

Brent,
Prleeeeeease stop posting ancient pictures of boats and sunsets. It is getting pretty close to spamming the YBW forums, is it not?
Are you able to post a picture of your self steering gear as asked?

Thanks:encouragement:

 

[A1Sailor]

View attachment 67177
Documented proof .Check the ports listed.

The writing on this is fuzzy and barely legible. No need to post it repeatedly.

 

[Brent Swain]

image: http://www.ybw.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.png
Default Re: Steel boat as a long-term liveaboard (in a warm(er) climate).

Yes, steel can be a maintenance night mare ,if you do things wrong (as is the case with anything you do on a boat,of any material).
The first time I arrived in the Marquesas, a steel boat from Darwin was just finishing a circumnavigation. When I asked them about maintenance problems, they said it was a nightmare, until they got to Durban, where they blasted her, and gave her a good buildup of epoxy tar. After that, they said maintenance dropped to almost zero.
I met a young couple from BC, in Tahiti, who were having major maintenance problems on their steel boat. I asked them what kind of paint they had on her. They said
"What the paint shop advised, one coat of red oxide primer and two of marine enamel." That is only marginally better than bare steel, and no paint.
I gave them some epoxy tar, and they were amazed at how much more protection it gave them.
In Samoa , I met a BC steel boat, ( Folkes) which was having paint problems.
I suggested it was too thin . They said they had lots of paint on ( according to Folkes?) I could clearly see the weld pattern thru the paint. You don't see weld pattern thru paint which is thick enough, period!
They also had tiny blisters in the paint . You don't get tiny blisters in thick paint, only big ones.
Tiny blisters mean very thin paint.
My 31 footer had 30 gallons of epoxy tar on clean, shot blasted, zinc primed ( 85% zinc , dry film ) from the outset, each coat put on within 24 hours of the last one, for a good bond.
A client did the same, but didn't clean the brown welding smoke from around the chine welds before painting. It stuck well elsewhere, but fell of within 6 inches of the chine welds.
I washed mine with TSP to degrease it, then vinegar, to remove any oxide from the zinc. The decks were hot galvanized plate, which I did the same with. Then, I hosed it down with fresh water, and let it dry in the hot sun, before painting.
3 coats of epoxy tar inside, before foaming. Has kept her well for 33 years, no problems.
If a steel boat has major rust in flat surfaces, blasting it to white metal and giving her a major buildup of many coats of epoxy can reduce your maintenance to minimal ,for several decades. No comparison to a poorly painted steel boat's maintenance. Get rid of any wood trim on the outside of a steel boat ( a big ,and sadly, so common mistake.) In the building process, trimming outside corners with stainless or stainless weld,and doing hard to reach spots with stainless( mast tabernackles, hatch coamings, etc) can reduce maintenance by up to 80%.
No, it is not the fault of steel as a building material, that such screwups result in maintenance problems. No, your experience in trying to maintain a poorly painted steel boat, doesn't mean all are such screwups.

A friend followed the advice of the paint supplier by putting acid based etc primer on after sandblasting. The epoxy fell off in sheets. Then he blasted again, and put the epoxy on freshly blasted steel . No further problems.
I had the same experience with that crap.
Avoid any acid based etch primer.
In the early 80s, a friend showed me an article about something called "Resin Glass," using glass platelets to make epoxy far more impervious to water" (Nothing more impervious than glass platelets). Later International used the method on Interprotect 2000E
Now, Ameron uses it, and also sells the platelets separately. I would definitely try it on any epoxy. Moisture has to take the scenic route around the platelets,(in a powder form).

Yes, get it wrong and steel can be a maintenance headache. Get it right, and it can be extremely maintenance free.
You don't get that experience, by one cruise in a poorly painted steel boat, nor should anyone draw final conclusions about steel, from such a brief experience.

 

[Brent Swain]

Asking questions like this is guaranteed to change the topic of conversation but not, unfortunately, on to the subject of “pictures of your windvane”...

Yes , detail drawings, along with far more.
Sorry ,I have been slow to answer, but been out cruising, far from the internet.

 

[Brent Swain]

The writing on this is fuzzy and barely legible. No need to post it repeatedly.

If you don't want me to post proof of my cruising and Pacific crossings, then stop asking the same questions, and posting the same lies about my offshore cruising experience.
If you don't want to see the proof ,then don't post the lies.

 

[Poecheng]

Yes , detail drawings, along with far more.
Sorry ,I have been slow to answer, but been out cruising, far from the internet.

Glad you are back.
Would it be possible for you to post a picture of your windvane please?
Thanks

 

[john_morris_uk]

Good luck with that one...

Or the advise I’m seeking on the best wind vane design if you can’t fit a trim tab system?

 

[john_morris_uk]

We’re all with you John, well... most of us!

Sorry I got my post wrong.

...can’t fit a trim tab system that’s stronger and better than anything else that I designed and can be thrown together in the cockpit of a boat and is better than anything ever made by anyone else.

Brett seems to forget that many wind vane designers and manufacturers are tiny family companies. In the grand scheme of things, the world wide demand is minuscule.

 

[A1Sailor]

If you don't want me to post proof of my cruising and Pacific crossings, then stop asking the same questions, and posting the same lies about my offshore cruising experience.
If you don't want to see the proof ,then don't post the lies.

I haven't posted any lies about your offshore cruising experience, or lies about anything else for that matter. Please stop calling me a liar.
All I've asked is that you post an image of your DIY self steering.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I hope you didn’t think I was being sarcastic John, I understood you very well, I just hope you and we get an honest un ranted answer before this thread goes from 12 pages to 24?!

No I didn't misunderstand you, I just couldn't resist adding the slightly sarcastic remarks....

The trouble is someone seems to be immune to such remarks and the general opprobrium of fellow sailors. It appears some people actually enjoy being out on a limb and the more they get questioned, the more it appears to affirm them in their 'special role and place in boat design and construction.'

 

[co256]

Per

 

[Brent Swain]

Glad you are back.
Would it be possible for you to post a picture of your windvane please?
Thanks

The drawing I have exceeds the limit allowed here.
I tried.
The most important thing is to get negative feed back , in the linkage between the vane and the trimtab. Connecting the vane to the trimtab an inch or so behind the axis of the rudder, gives you that. On mine that is adjustable.
Positive feedback is what you get when you ship the vane on the trimtab shaft. As the tab goes over ,and pushes the rudder, the angle between the trimtab and rudder increases, resulting in oversteering. Negative feed back, where the angle between the trimtab and rudder decreases as the rudder swings over ,eliminates that

 

[Brent Swain]

Perhaps it is so with all forms of mechanical engineering that the individual who devotes as much time to the form of a thing as to its function invariably produces something simple, efficient and a pleasure to use.

Scrap materials cobbled together may well suffice for the work up of an idea but do not inspire me when they are put forth as the finished product, un evidenced by even so much as a picture...

Scrap stainless is, on a molecular level , absolutely identical to new, and indistinguishable from it in any way. The sea doesn't read the brand name or price tag before deciding on how hard to treat gear.
Believing it does, is a suckers game!
Here is your picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fonmXsXSdtU

 

[Brent Swain]

View attachment 67094
Previous ports on this voyage ( one of many)clearly listed, which US customs tends to check diligently , with severe consequences for any deception.

Click on the document, for an expanded, readable version.
A computer kid could improve it further.

 

[A1Sailor]

Scrap stainless is, on a molecular level , absolutely identical to new, and indistinguishable from it in any way. The sea doesn't read the brand name or price tag before deciding on how hard to treat gear.
Believing it does, is a suckers game!
Here is your picture.

Is this yours too, Brent?

 

[Daydream believer]

View attachment 66988
My current boat in Mexico, Baja, 1989.
No ,those are not BC forests in the back ground !

May i ask a question about the paint
if it is so good, how come we have changed colours ie see posts 96 & 97 where this occurs again

 

[Brent Swain]

Is this yours too, Brent?

Yes definitely! He tried a horizontal axis one ,and found it took to much fiddling around, with no real advantage. This one took him around Cape Horn, and on to the Aleutians, then back to BC, with no complaints.
Cost ,under $50 for materials.

 

[Brent Swain]

May i ask a question about the paint
if it is so good, how come we have changed colours ie see posts 96 & 97 where this occurs again

North of Cabo, in winter, dark green was warm to the touch on sunny days when she was frozen in in minus 12 degrees C.
South of Cabo it was far too hot. Painting her white was like adding air conditioning. Even changing the deck colour from very light beige to white made a huge difference .
North of Cabo, a white hull caused muskiness in the lockers, which dissappeard as soon as I changed it back to dark green.
On Winston's first boat, the one he circumnavigated in, changing the hull colour from black to white , in Tahiti, gave him a 20 degree change in cabin temperature.
Bare aluminium in the tropics gets hot enough to burn the soles of your feet ,in the sun.

 

[Brent Swain]

I’ll leave others to judge whether your claims to have sailed the Pacific many times are credible. One of my jobs in assessing candidates for their skippers tickets (offshore or ocean) is to assess whether their claimed experience is credible.

People who rush to ‘prove’ their claims with photographs of one record aren’t always very convincing. I’m sure you’ve made one crossing. You’ve IMPLIED you’re an extremely experienced sailor, but I’ll allow others to judge their veracity.

I have passports from many pacific crossings, but they exceed the size limit here.
No computer whizz kids around, at the moment.