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Is wind vane steering necessary....

ScallywagII

Member
Joined
11 Jan 2012
Messages
76
Location
Southampton
The OP was rightly concerned about the cost of vane gear and Brent pointed out that a reliable trim tab system can be built at low cost. This is potentially very helpful for those whose boats have an outboard rudder.


Len Hiley

ScallywagII T23+ JC14
Emu Hurley 27 JC18 (maybe)
 
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john_morris_uk

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3 Jul 2002
Messages
22,617
Location
Farnham, Surrey
My commercial wind vane gear isn’t flimsy. It wasn’t cheap but I did buy it second hand so it was extremely reasonably priced. I’ve used an Aries in the past as well. I don’t recall it being flimsy.

I wonder how Brent justifies his throwaway line about ‘flimsy commercial wind vanes’? It’s vague enough to support his business interests (even if they are modest) but puts all commercial gear into the ‘suspect’ category without naming names and risking a law suit.

Or would Brent care to name which commercial wind vanes he considers flimsy?
 
Joined
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Well, I did just that and found a whole lot of this...

"He claims he's lived aboard most of his life and crossed the Pacific multiple times. He gives example of record runs to exotic destinations on his boat, and uses all the achievement as proof of his sailing skills and boat design superiority.



People who know him well have told a different story. He has lived on the dole, with his sister in her flat for most of his adult life, not aboard his boat.



Most importantly apart from the occasional coastal cruise in sheltered waters he has never been offshore in any of his own designs. His own 31 footer has certainly never been out of Canadian waters despite his claims of something like 8 Pacific crossings in it.



He appears to have had a trip to NZ when he was in his early 20's in a ferro-cement "Pipe dream" . The boat apparently sank after being washed onto a reef. Since that aborted effort Brent has apparently been reluctant to go offshore again on any boat. So he's made up a fantasy life were he's an expert engineer, yacht designer and daring explorer.



Most of what he posts is one part truth and nine parts fiction. He does manage to mislead a lot of people unless they read forums like this."
The guy who made that up has never met me, nor been in my neighbourhood . He lives on the US east coast ,around 4,000 miles from me.
On that site, I have posted my clearance out of Hilo Hawaii, listing the many previous ports I visited on that voyage. The paranoid US govt tends to check them out, especially the last one listed, and is pretty harsh if they are not accurate. I also posted pictures of my boat in Hilo, Mexico , Niue, Aituitaki, Moorea , etc.,etc, and my passports, showing the ports I have visited ,all of which posts have been deleted, to keep the lies afloat .
I will post them here, as soon as I figure out how. They are all on this computer.
In the last 20 years I have spent less than 4 weeks living on land. Recently, I had to to take care of my 95 year old father, while my brother and sister went south for a couple of weeks. ( Vegas ;they survived).
Boy, that house living is super boring.Sure felt good to be back aboard,.Can't imagine spending ones whole life living that way!
300 channels on the TV , and nothing worth watching ( programed by ""Experts " with every qualification imaginable!)
The last time I was on the dole was in the early 70's.
This post reminds me of the story I heard on CBC radio last night, about how one of the victims of the Vegas shootings is being called a liar, and is constantly being bullied, slandered and harassed online, by those who claim he is making up the whole story about the Vegas shootings, which ,according to the trolls , never happened ,but was staged,and he was simply a well paid actor in it.
Such is the reliability of info from the land of "post truth."
The thinking is ;
"Must be true ,it is on the internet!"
 
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Joined
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Messages
1,365
My commercial wind vane gear isn’t flimsy. It wasn’t cheap but I did buy it second hand so it was extremely reasonably priced. I’ve used an Aries in the past as well. I don’t recall it being flimsy.

I wonder how Brent justifies his throwaway line about ‘flimsy commercial wind vanes’? It’s vague enough to support his business interests (even if they are modest) but puts all commercial gear into the ‘suspect’ category without naming names and risking a law suit.

Or would Brent care to name which commercial wind vanes he considers flimsy?
Monitors have frequent break downs and provide spare parts for when it inevitably breaks. No comparison to the toughness of trim tab on a rudder. No servo pendulum rig is anywhere near as strong.
Those using Hasler rigs on tough voyages ( Chichester , Rose, Lewis etc ) had an abysmal failure rate.
 
Joined
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Messages
1,365
Sunbdown Fanning.jpg
My current boat at Fanning Island , in 2,000, before continuing on to the Cook islands , Pago Pago, Apia, Tonga, Niue, Chrismas Island, Hilo and back to BC.
Doot, doot ,do, looking out my back door," at sunset.
No, those are not BC fir trees!
 

john_morris_uk

Well-known member
Joined
3 Jul 2002
Messages
22,617
Location
Farnham, Surrey
Monitors have frequent break downs and provide spare parts for when it inevitably breaks. No comparison to the toughness of trim tab on a rudder. No servo pendulum rig is anywhere near as strong.
Those using Hasler rigs on tough voyages ( Chichester , Rose, Lewis etc ) had an abysmal failure rate.
Opinion and rather selective use of data.

The sailors you mention were at the edge of technology and innovation regarding wind vane systems. They were devised/invented by sailors who were experimenting with a ‘new’ technology. Citing breakdowns of Chichester’s wind vane gear and contrasting it to some home made conconction of yours is (with any respect due) risible.

Tab systems can be effective and robust. So can others. Lots of ocean going boats don’t have rudders suitable for trim tab wind vanes.

I’ve not used a Monitor personally but in my Ocean travels I haven’t come across sailors queuing up to say that their Monitor has broken. The fact that they are so popular means some are bound to get used as spares. Aries and Hydrovane both have extremely good reputations or are you going to suggest they are ‘flimsy’. In fact you said “... with flimsy, commercially made windvanes.“

Aries aren’t made any more so the popular big selling names are Hydrovane and Monitor. Which of these is flimsy in your opinion or are you referring to others?
 
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Joined
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1,365
There is no way you can support a pendulum from one end, as strongly as you can support a trim tab from three pintles along its entire length. No, putting a brand name on it, and printing a glossy add for it ,won't make it stronger than the "homemade" trimtab on three pintles .
The sea is unimpressed by a brand name ,glossy add and snobbery . Reality doesn't work that way!
 

john_morris_uk

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Joined
3 Jul 2002
Messages
22,617
Location
Farnham, Surrey
There is no way you can support a pendulum from one end, as strongly as you can support a trim tab from three pintles along its entire length.!
Actually you can. It just depends how you engineer it.

Flimsy (to me) implies it’s not engineered to a sufficiently high standard for the intended job and possibly circumstances of its use and you do yourself no credit in your attitude.

Which vane steering system would you suggest for a boat that hasn’t got a rudder suitable for a tab system on pintles?

By the way Hydrovane isn’t a servo pendulum gear.
 
Joined
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Actually you can. It just depends how you engineer it.

Flimsy (to me) implies it’s not engineered to a sufficiently high standard for the intended job and possibly circumstances of its use and you do yourself no credit in your attitude.

Which vane steering system would you suggest for a boat that hasn’t got a rudder suitable for a tab system on pintles?

By the way Hydrovane isn’t a servo pendulum gear.
It would have to be massively bigger than it is, or than is practical, to come even close.
A hydrovane is still a blade supported from only one end ( cantilevered).
 

john_morris_uk

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Messages
22,617
Location
Farnham, Surrey
It would have to be massively bigger than it is, or than is practical, to come even close. .
Sometimes statements are so outrageously silly that they don’t need any comment.

I’m sure we all oook forward to seeing pictures of this wonderful homemade wind vane system of yours.

I note you still haven’t suggested a wind vane design suitable for boats that don’t have a rudder in a position you can fit a trim tab system to.
 
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I was going to post the drawings of my wind vane, but co256 talked me out of it , when he posted, as "fact ",quotes from what has become "The National Enquirer" of boat forums.
My time will be better spent going hunting, rather than trying to help such people.
Going hunting.
 
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Joined
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1,365
I must admit that this is the most entertainment we have had on the JC Forum in a long time, but are we feeding a troll?
YES you are definitely feeding a troll, the likes of which have destroyed any further discussion of metal boats on other forums, led by Bob Perry, who has zero steel boat building, living aboard, maintaining, or cruising experience, but charges $175 an hour for advice on the subjects.
For real metal boat discussion, by people who actually know what they are talking about , the most active and informative on the internet, where such trolls don't last long ,check ,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats
Nearly 3,000 members.
 
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