Is there a modern equivalent of Westerly / Sadler yachts?

[Quandary]

Assuming I am comparing like with like, the Finngulf 36 is half a meter shorter on the waterline than the 33 so in some ways its the bigger boat.

No, that is the old 36. a quite different boat, the pair I am referring to are both Strahlman (Florida based Finn) designs, in production at the same time and imported into the UK from 2006 onward. I think he just changed the scale on his CAD package. I think there were only 2 in the UK one did a transatlantic and when he came back changed it for the 33. PBO did a brief test report on both of them just before a UK importer was appointed. Fantastic boats still can not understand why I was daft enough to sell mine.
The latest offerings with a step through transom were marketed as F331 and F37, though the hull was unchanged.

 

[duncan99210]

I think that there are plenty of “mid market cruising boats” it just that the market has shifted quite dramatically over the past 30 years or so. Whereas a 26 - 30 foot boat was once regarded as mid market, a mid 30 foot boat has taken its place. Along with that shift has come a move to shallower, wider hulls with deeper fin keels. Thats been driven in part by advances in hull manufacturing processes which allow roomier hulls and partially by mass market charter fleets who are aiming to provide reasonable comfort for a greater number of people on board.
Those folks that have the money to buy or charter are looking for walk through cockpits, room to sit out or down below in comfort and good performance under sail or motor. So smaller boats with comparatively cramped layouts below, small cockpits and wheels that obstruct easy passage through the cockpit aren’t what they want.
My Bavaria 38 is a perfectly sea worthy boat which I’ve sailed through some significant winds and seas. With a sprayhood in place she offers a reasonably dry cockpit in just about all weather and provided you reef early she sails well and is easy to manage. The idea that she’s not a suitable boat for ocean crossings because her keel will drop off or her stern is too wide is nonsense.
There will always be a niche market for customs built boats like HR and Rustler but they rely on being able to charge premium prices for their products: they’re not trying to compete head on with the likes of the mass market builders.

 

[johnalison]

In terms of aspiration, a modern 35-footer is roughly equivalent to the 28-footer of the '70s. It probably displaces much the same but sails 10 percent faster, ie, 2 hours less after twelve hours. I can't be bothered to work out the maths, but its volume is about double, and yet it costs probably less in real terms, so it is not surprising that this is now about the size of an average boat. It is sad that the 25-footers are not the mainstream of sailing any more, because such sailing is, if nothing else, character-forming, and very good for the kiddies, but times move on. I am glad that the new generation, with larger boats, GPS, mobile phones, plus refrigeration, hot water and showers that we never dreamt of, can explore further than we could, but I also have a good idea of what they are missing.

 

[bitbaltic]

Perhaps it's worth noting that the cost of a boat in the 60s was such that marine mortgages were a perfectly normal way to finance a boat; that's why so many older boats have registration numbers carved on them. The cost of a new boat back then was comparable to that of a house, especially in areas away from London. I'd guess that the proportion hasn't actually changed very much ; a new boat these days would cost about the same as a house outside the hot-house of SE England prices; my own house would fetch about the cost of a new BenJenBav in the 35-40' range.

I think the main change is that boats back then were regarded in the same light as homes; they were a stable and lasting investment, and for most of the last century, they held their value or even gained in value in cash terms, not taking inflation into account. My own Moody 31 is probably worth more in pounds now than it cost new, or at least a comparable sum. The advent of VAT meant that there was an immediate drop in value of whatever the VAT rate was when you purchased a new boat; that must have cooled the market for new boats and reduced their value as investments, as there was no way you'd recover that over the short term

Crikey

when I bought my boat 10 years ago it cost within 10% of its new purchase price ten years earlier, so that was about right back then, but if I sold it now I reckon I’d be 30% down despite a decade of betterment

the house I bought last year would, in boat terms, probably bag me a Garcia/discovery/Swan/what have you. And I’m not in the SE of England. Family boats still have a way to go to catch up with family houses in most places I think.

 

[Chae_73]

Thanks for the replies; as a result, I have pleasantly distracted myself with internet viewings of a number of Continental and Scandinavian boats, many of which I was previously unaware of:

C-Yachts
Malo
Sweden Yachts / CR
Finngulf
Maxi

Which generally seem to meet the criteria of moderately designed (if not necessarily moderately priced, in some cases) boats.

 

[Carib]

Thanks for the replies; as a result, I have pleasantly distracted myself with internet viewings of a number of Continental and Scandinavian boats, many of which I was previously unaware of:

You might have a look at Breehorns too (or anything designed by Koopmans for that matter). Not well known in the UK, rather nice in my opinion.

 

[Rafiki]

Do you know the price of a new one, can't find it on their website?

I wondered that too, One of the magazine articles linked in the C105 brochure gives price as 200k Euro, not sure if that includes VAT. The dimensions of the yacht itself is remarkably similiar to my WEsterly Corsair, but the interior layout makes better use of space albeit it only has one heads!

 

[johnalison]

You might have a look at Breehorns too (or anything designed by Koopmans for that matter). Not well known in the UK, rather nice in my opinion.

The Victoire yachts were quite nice too, also by Koopsmans. I haven't heard of them for ages and imagine that they are no longer in business but we went on a Dutchman's 1044 once and it was very pleasant inside, and also appeared to sail well for the short time we were sailing nearby.

 

[doug748]

I have mentioned this yard before, not really the same thing but interesting boats. Esp for the older sailing gent, closing in on pottering:

ENGLISH – NAZ-schepen


.

 

[Slowboat35]

I'd be tempted to wait and buy a cheap distressed sale Sadler 32 and make of it what I fancied.
Best of all worlds.
Better yet if you take the previous owner out a few times once it's done.

 

[Carib]

The Victoire yachts were quite nice too, also by Koopsmans. I haven't heard of them for ages and imagine that they are no longer in business but we went on a Dutchman's 1044 once and it was very pleasant inside, and also appeared to sail well for the short time we were sailing nearby.

Yes, they look very good. Breehorn recently built a 31 which was essentially an updated Victoire 933 (same mould, some modifications) - but as far as I could see they didn't sell any as I later saw the prototype advertised at a much-reduced price. I guess when you can buy essentially the same boat, carry out a total refit and still have change left over the market tends to diminish!

Judging from the Dutch-flagged boats I see on the south coast, they have very good taste in yachts.

 

[johnalison]

Judging from the Dutch-flagged boats I see on the south coast, they have very good taste in yachts.

There is certainly a 'Dutch' look to their yachts, but these boats are mostly at the premium end of their market and most of them sail AWBs. Because of the inland nature of their waters, there is also more of an opportunity for smaller boats, though I think they have far fewer than the Germans, maybe because they are the tallest nation on Earth. They also have something of a liking for 'character' yachts, and sailing performance is not always a priority, though some of their weirder designs can sail very well, as do some of their traditional craft.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I quite like Contest yachts. especially the previous iteration 40/42 44s. And they haves skeg hung rudders which I know would delight some on here


edited because auto-correct doesn't like skeg! There is a whole threads worth of nautical terms that auto-correct doesn't like

 

[johnalison]

I quite like Contest yachts. especially the previous iteration 40/42 44s. And they haves skeg hung rudders which I know would delight some on here


edited because auto-correct doesn't like skeg! There is a whole threads worth of nautical terms that auto-correct doesn't like

'Skeg' used to be the word I used when testing dictionaries before buying them, not that this was especially frequent. Quite a lot of medium-sized dictionaries didn't include it in the days I'm referring to, '60s & '70s.

 

[Chae_73]

You might have a look at Breehorns too (or anything designed by Koopmans for that matter). Not well known in the UK, rather nice in my opinion.

Breehorn 37 looks very fine indeed. It would be on my list for a retirement ocean crossing boat.

(and features a stout looking skeg )

 

[Plymsea]

Do you know the price of a new one, can't find it on their website?

It is a lovely looking 34 footer

 

[Birdseye]

It's been over 20 years since I last set foot in a boat show, and things seem to have changed considerably in terms of who is still around, and what kind of boats they are making.

A few low volume "luxury" builders still seem to be making fairly traditional or conservative boats, but I'm struggling to see anyone making the kind of mid market cruising boats that used to be reasonably well represented. Or is it just that "things have moved on", and a 34' boat with twin wheels, wide stern and huge "swimming platform" is really ideal for cruising uk waters?

I guess the fact that so many builders have give bust largely answers the question about what has happened and why, but nonetheless, interested in people's views (in case i win the lottery and can afford a new boat )

Mostly its perception. Just as the quality of mass produced cars has rised ( except for Renault and PSA) so has the quality of mass produced boats. Bendytoys are no longer so bendy though the internal fit out is more MFI than cabinet maker. The big loss is that none of the mass manufacturers, which is what Westerly Moody etc were in their pomp, make bilge keelers and that design makes sense for much of the UK and northern France.

As for your last sentence - thats nonsense. Bav and Benny have both gone bust, and not once either. The difference is that their governments organise the system so that the business survives and the creditors and shareholders take the pain. Even the Yanks do that as with Harley and GM. In the UK we just let businesses in trouble fold up for the benefit of the banks. Which is why they still have boat builders and vehicle makers and steel companies and aluminium smelters and bulk chemical companies etc etc - and we dont.

 

[E39mad]

Moving back to the OP's original question Swallow Yachts make very good 23 and 26 foot yachts as well as an excellent 20' trailer sailer. Lifting keel and British (Wales) built.