Is there a modern equivalent of Westerly / Sadler yachts?

Chae_73

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It's been over 20 years since I last set foot in a boat show, and things seem to have changed considerably in terms of who is still around, and what kind of boats they are making.

A few low volume "luxury" builders still seem to be making fairly traditional or conservative boats, but I'm struggling to see anyone making the kind of mid market cruising boats that used to be reasonably well represented. Or is it just that "things have moved on", and a 34' boat with twin wheels, wide stern and huge "swimming platform" is really ideal for cruising uk waters?

I guess the fact that so many builders have give bust largely answers the question about what has happened and why, but nonetheless, interested in people's views (in case i win the lottery and can afford a new boat :))
 

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Mid market these days is really Bavaria/Jeanneau/Beneteau et al; and yes, designs have changed substantially (and not to everyone's taste). Otherwise, new family cruising boats of under, say, 32 foot are very scarce indeed. At the 'luxury' end, HR make a 310 ; the only smaller 'sensible' cruising boat I can think of at Southampton last year was the Cornish Crabber 26' and a Fisher 25 (I think being resurrected by an outfit from India - without much success I suspect, given the apparent lack of interest from any passers by). You can buy a new Contessa 32 at £200K or so. If you don't fancy a modern design, the only option is to find an older one and refit to suit. [Cue argument on the merits of older vs newer boats..].
 

Wansworth

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In relation to house prices and income are yachts more or less expensive as they were in the 1960/70s.In 1964my dad bought a house for six thousand,detached in countryside in Sussex,and in 1969 he bought a Halcyon 27 for two thousand seven hundred I recall a bank worked aren’t about 25 quid a week
 

Resolution

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Twenty years ago, when I worked in one of the UK dealers for a mid-market Continental manufacturer, the cruiser range started at 26 feet and went up into the 50s. Most popular by far for UK use were the 36/7 foot boats. So I think the OPs "standards" were probably set a good few years earlier.
 
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flaming

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It's been over 20 years since I last set foot in a boat show, and things seem to have changed considerably in terms of who is still around, and what kind of boats they are making.

A few low volume "luxury" builders still seem to be making fairly traditional or conservative boats, but I'm struggling to see anyone making the kind of mid market cruising boats that used to be reasonably well represented. Or is it just that "things have moved on", and a 34' boat with twin wheels, wide stern and huge "swimming platform" is really ideal for cruising uk waters?

I guess the fact that so many builders have give bust largely answers the question about what has happened and why, but nonetheless, interested in people's views (in case i win the lottery and can afford a new boat :))
To my mind the biggest change that has happened in the last 30 years is less about the individual designs, but more about the gradual increase in size of the boats.

It used to be that most yards offered something around 26-29 foot as a starter boat, and somewhere around 30 foot would be about average in a raft in Yarmouth or Weymouth on a busy summer weekend. Now the 30 foot offering is normally the smallest and really does look small compared to the average boat in the raft.

In terms of the style, you do see a lot of disparaging remarks from people about "34 foot boats with twin wheels". But to be honest I did my time sailing Westerlys, now I sail a variety of more modern boats and there is little doubt in my mind as to which are better at facilitating a pleasant weekend on the water.
Which is not to say that older boats aren't good, but that the design choices made by the current crop of designers seem to me at least to have resulted in boats that work better for sailing and living on board in normal UK summer weather.
 

Resolution

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In relation to house prices and income are yachts more or less expensive as they were in the 1960/70s.In 1964my dad bought a house for six thousand,detached in countryside in Sussex,and in 1969 he bought a Halcyon 27 for two thousand seven hundred I recall a bank worked aren’t about 25 quid a week
Need to add in a mid size Ford car for comparison. Anyone have the figures to hand?
 

Carib

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In relation to house prices and income are yachts more or less expensive as they were in the 1960/70s.In 1964my dad bought a house for six thousand,detached in countryside in Sussex,and in 1969 he bought a Halcyon 27 for two thousand seven hundred I recall a bank worked aren’t about 25 quid a week
It's an interesting question rather muddied by the change in property values..we need an economist. But I think we know with hindsight which was the better investment in financial terms!
 

johnalison

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Size seems to be the main thing. We don't see the sort of Sadler 26s or Moody 27s that one would happily take that family in across the Channel in summer weather. There are some boats of that size perfectly capable of doing the trip but they seem to be less family-friendly and more suited to day/weekend trips, for which their superior performance is a benefit. I suspect that for many builders a small boat will do for them what the Mini did for BL.
 

Chae_73

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Twenty years ago, when I worked in one of the UK dealers for a mid-market Continental manufacturer, the cruiser range started at 26 feet and went up into the 50s. Most popular by far for UK use were the 36/7 foot boats. So I think the OPs "standards" were probably set a good few years earlier.

Yes, more like 30 years ago, and then mainly messing about on boats which were already far from new.

I'm not opposed to new designs per se, but generally favour moderation and some of them, appear a bit immoderate (to my eyes). I guess I should try a week's sailing on one and see how it goes. I'm sure they are generally fit for purpose, and the advantage of bigger accommodations is obvious.

Out of those suggested so far, the HR31 is something that I could aspire to own.
 

AntarcticPilot

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In relation to house prices and income are yachts more or less expensive as they were in the 1960/70s.In 1964my dad bought a house for six thousand,detached in countryside in Sussex,and in 1969 he bought a Halcyon 27 for two thousand seven hundred I recall a bank worked aren’t about 25 quid a week
Perhaps it's worth noting that the cost of a boat in the 60s was such that marine mortgages were a perfectly normal way to finance a boat; that's why so many older boats have registration numbers carved on them. The cost of a new boat back then was comparable to that of a house, especially in areas away from London. I'd guess that the proportion hasn't actually changed very much ; a new boat these days would cost about the same as a house outside the hot-house of SE England prices; my own house would fetch about the cost of a new BenJenBav in the 35-40' range.

I think the main change is that boats back then were regarded in the same light as homes; they were a stable and lasting investment, and for most of the last century, they held their value or even gained in value in cash terms, not taking inflation into account. My own Moody 31 is probably worth more in pounds now than it cost new, or at least a comparable sum. The advent of VAT meant that there was an immediate drop in value of whatever the VAT rate was when you purchased a new boat; that must have cooled the market for new boats and reduced their value as investments, as there was no way you'd recover that over the short term
 

johnalison

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Perhaps it's worth noting that the cost of a boat in the 60s was such that marine mortgages were a perfectly normal way to finance a boat; that's why so many older boats have registration numbers carved on them. The cost of a new boat back then was comparable to that of a house, especially in areas away from London. I'd guess that the proportion hasn't actually changed very much ; a new boat these days would cost about the same as a house outside the hot-house of SE England prices; my own house would fetch about the cost of a new BenJenBav in the 35-40' range.

I think the main change is that boats back then were regarded in the same light as homes; they were a stable and lasting investment, and for most of the last century, they held their value or even gained in value in cash terms, not taking inflation into account. My own Moody 31 is probably worth more in pounds now than it cost new, or at least a comparable sum. The advent of VAT meant that there was an immediate drop in value of whatever the VAT rate was when you purchased a new boat; that must have cooled the market for new boats and reduced their value as investments, as there was no way you'd recover that over the short term
I don't remember much of a hiccup with VAT. The country's finances in the '70s were quite bad enough in themselves to do that. One side-effect of the tax was a flurry of boats called 'Novat', of which one was an Arpege that belonged to a fellow club member.

When I bought my Sadler 29 for +/- £20,000 in 1987 the Moody 31 was out of reach for me at £30,000, though we did have a look at them at the time.
 

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The OP's question was about traditional style small boats. the answer is a resounding yes. You won't see or hear much aboutthem in the UK, but if you go to Boot in Dusseldorf you will see quite a few boats that will meet your requirements. There a few Dutch makers and some random companies in Estonia for example. In the UK there is of course Rustler and Mystery yachts.
 

johnalison

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The OP's question was about traditional style small boats. the answer is a resounding yes. You won't see or hear much aboutthem in the UK, but if you go to Boot in Dusseldorf you will see quite a few boats that will meet your requirements. There a few Dutch makers and some random companies in Estonia for example. In the UK there is of course Rustler and Mystery yachts.
I'm glad to hear it. A friend recently sold his 2-yr old Winner8', to a Dutchman. It was about what people are asking for, but not cheap, and maybe part of why the builders went bust.
 

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I bought our first two yachts new, both had a waiting list, on some boats it was over a year. It meant that when they were sold both got more than I had paid for them mainly because of the galloping inflation at the time, Our second boat 26' cost almost exactly half of the value of our house mortgage. Modern production methods mean that it it almost as cheap to build 35 feet as 25 so little incentive for builders to go much below that. I often regretted that when we ordered our Finngulf 33 that we did not put a few more quid in and buy the 36. Exactly the same layout just bigger and not that much more. Having said that our local club yard will not admit anything bigger than 33'' so the extra cost would have occurred after purchase.
 

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I remember the Sadler adds in PBO. The boom in fitting out a kit and getting sailing. Expectations were far less and DIY skills a bit more prevelent, as was camping under canvas, so a 25ft yacht was good for a family of four.
Shuffle on to post 'some date or other' and newbies are told that anything under 30ft is bad for your health and the number that now have the spare cash to put into an asset that they can use on the occasional week-end in good weather, is getting much lower. Before Covid, Hey! Book a couple of weeks in some warm clime in a 40ft at much less money. Then go to Thailand a bit later for even less.
I was quite young in the 50s & 60s boom in ply home building, but saw very many people build from plans or part built, because they saw a chance to get out there and have some enjoyment on the water. The dinghy fleets back then were huge. No marinas, one had to row out to a mooring, part of the fun, and cheap. Some of that is still available, for the few who think it balances the sailing fun. But less are now being drawn in. Costs verses alternatives.
 
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