Is the Caribbean a solution to 90/180?

[BurnitBlue]

Caribbean or wherever a group of countries group closely enough to allow day hop between 90/180 areas. Flight times, cost and airport access are reasonable. 6 hours to an island rather than three hours to Greece. I did it for two years once. Paris to Martinique. Wonderful sailing in the winter. Enjoy summer in UK. Clear seas, adventure, 3,000 miles of exotic islands between Trinidad and Miami. Take your pick.

Compare that with 90 days a year in the very hot windless Mediterranean, pay expensive storage for 275 days a year for a boat you are simply not even allowed to visit. Except for a useless cold winter visit to use the second 90 day allowance.

As a free human being living in a free world, that word "allowance" does my head in.

What Americans call a no brainer.

That is my plan for 2021, made while sitting comfortably in the proverbial armchair.

 

[atol]

It is not entirely impossible to do the round trip from the uk in reasonably good weather and avoid hurricane season either inside of 10-12 months

 

[Ningaloo]

I guess the hurricane season is a deterrent to keeping a boat there permanently.
But my own alternative plans might well include the Carribbean and beyond if the Schengen shuffle proves impractical.

 

[BurnitBlue]

It is not entirely impossible to do the round trip from the uk in reasonably good weather and avoid hurricane season either inside of 10-12 months

Agree. T21 of this forum does it regularly. I was thinking of summer storage below the hurricane belt in Trinidad or Granada. Someone on this forum said that storage in Trinidad is cheaper than the Med.

 

[Laser310]

I think it depends what you like to do...

The caribbean is just not that interesting from a cultural perspective. It's great for short visits, maybe even a season once every few years, but five or six months a year, every year would get boring for me.

If you've seen one caribbean beach bar, you've seen them all.

 

[atol]

Agree. T21 of this forum does it regularly. I was thinking of summer storage below the hurricane belt in Trinidad or Granada. Someone on this forum said that storage in Trinidad is cheaper than the Med.

probably comparable once you factor in flights as well

 

[BurnitBlue]

I think it depends what you like to do...

The caribbean is just not that interesting from a cultural perspective. It's great for short visits, maybe even a season once every few years, but five or six months a year, every year would get boring for me.

If you've seen one caribbean beach bar, you've seen them all.

If you like to sail rather than motor everywhere then Caribbean wins hands down. If it's culture or history you want to see than Europe is better but not aboard a boat. In my experience most historic sites are inland so an RV in Europe is unbeatable.

An example, i was moored against a quay in the Gulf of Corinth for a week waiting for weather to let me get to Delphi. I never made it. The weather combined with the anxiety from poorly manouvred charter boats kept me on board.

I hope this thread gives ideas how to work with or around the Schengen Shuffle. Thanks for the term ningaloo.

 

[BurnitBlue]

probably comparable once you factor in flights as well

I think it is about Quality. I spent 5 years cruising the Caribbean,. My memories are about sailing, snorkling colourful reefs, white clean beaches, rum punch, sunsets etc.

I spent the last 7 years in the Med. My memories are about cafe's. Hanging on the anchor chain for dear life, heat and sweating, dirty smelly water, plastic bottles.

I realise the examples above indicate a bias to prove a point so I have really tried to find one thing apart from cafe's that will balance the equation. For that reason I did not compare anchoring in unsafe Med anchorages in violent winds from just about any direction at any time to anchoring in the Trade Wind belt in steady winds consistantly from the East. I have to be fair.

What about Thailand? Maldives, Red Sea. North Africa?

 

[sailaboutvic]

1980 i solo sailed a 33 foot boat South heading to cross the Atlantic, it dint quite go to plan , I really wanted to see the monkey in Gib before I cross and turned left into the Med , been here ever since in between going back now and then to earn some cash .
I never regret the time I some spend in the Med loved it although I do regret not crossing ,

Cruising and free sailing has moved on 10 fold , the days are gone when we couldn't tie up on a harbour wall for free ,
when port police take no notice of a cruising boat or when visiting yachtsmen where made very welcomed .
Now it's all about money ,
for us Brits a combination of Brexit and the Virus is going to make this year very difficult for most who want to cruise from one EU country to another , for them who happy to stay in just one country , like Greece or Spain, Portugal residency was a good option but for the likes of me it wasn't .

Looking around the marina we in now some of our British friends have return back to the UK some have never done this before , mostly to return just as the season start to get their full 90days.
other included me has sat it out.
I think there still enough country's that not part of the big S to get around the 90/180 with a bit of ducking and diving .
But this posting about crossing the pond so not to dift too far , we have a list of really good friends who done just that and they also have problems there ,thief is quite high on the agenda, visas need to be apply for and paid for which in some places are not cheap plus the red tape,
in a family emergency and you need to get back booking a flight for tomorrow isn't going to cost let alone a marina berth,
As most know medical insurance for long term is hard to get and very expensive, if you need medical help in Europe you can still get it free not so else where.
I'm sure the cribs are a lovely place to sail , but I wouldn't let what going on in the part of the world be part of the reason for leaving the Med .

 

[Sea Devil]

I think it depends what you like to do...

The caribbean is just not that interesting from a cultural perspective. It's great for short visits, maybe even a season once every few years, but five or six months a year, every year would get boring for me.

If you've seen one caribbean beach bar, you've seen them all.

I think that is pretty well my experience but there are lots of very accessible alternatives which is what I did...

Not to mention Cuba, Bahamas, Mexico, the ABC islands... as well.

I kept Bambola in Trinidad each hurricane season for 3 years and flew back to the UK out of Tobago.. The total costs of all this were less than keeping a boat in the Med... I agree one beach bar and set of boat boys is like another in every island but... I am desperately tempted to go back next winter which has welled up since I finished editing and published

 

[BurnitBlue]

@ sea devil.
Brilliant. I am also welling up to return to the Caribbean. A really good positive look at the nuts and bolts of sailing across the Atlantic. Thank you very much.

 

[Sea Devil]

@ sea devil.
Brilliant. I am also welling up to return to the Caribbean. A really good positive look at the nuts and bolts of sailing across the Atlantic. Thank you very much.

Thank you... It was good to remind myself. Glad you liked it

 

[BurnitBlue]

1980 i solo sailed a 33 foot boat South heading to cross the Atlantic, it dint quite go to plan , I really wanted to see the monkey in Gib before I cross and turned left into the Med , been here ever since in between going back now and then to earn some cash .
I never regret the time I some spend in the Med loved it although I do regret not crossing ,

Cruising and free sailing has moved on 10 fold , the days are gone when we couldn't tie up on a harbour wall for free ,
when port police take no notice of a cruising boat or when visiting yachtsmen where made very welcomed .
Now it's all about money ,
for us Brits a combination of Brexit and the Virus is going to make this year very difficult for most who want to cruise from one EU country to another , for them who happy to stay in just one country , like Greece or Spain, Portugal residency was a good option but for the likes of me it wasn't .

Looking around the marina we in now some of our British friends have return back to the UK some have never done this before , mostly to return just as the season start to get their full 90days.
other included me has sat it out.
I think there still enough country's that not part of the big S to get around the 90/180 with a bit of ducking and diving .
But this posting about crossing the pond so not to dift too far , we have a list of really good friends who done just that and they also have problems there ,thief is quite high on the agenda, visas need to be apply for and paid for which in some places are not cheap plus the red tape,
in a family emergency and you need to get back booking a flight for tomorrow isn't going to cost let alone a marina berth,
As most know medical insurance for long term is hard to get and very expensive, if you need medical help in Europe you can still get it free not so else where.
I'm sure the cribs are a lovely place to sail , but I wouldn't let what going on in the part of the world be part of the reason for leaving the Med .

I firmly believe that the majority of sailing boat owners got into it by a desire to voyage to far away places. Then "Life happens" and a diversion to pottering between harbours gets difficult to break away from. There is always tomorrow until there isn't. Health becomes a major issue especially far from help.

I met an aging doctor aboard his HR 35 in a lonely Caribbean anchorage. He had diffulty breathing. He told me that he had spent a lot of his working life as Hospital doctor listening to the screams of the dying. He could ease the pain slightly but was not allowed to terminate the patient. Obvious reasons. He took to the sea close to his own end to avoid such a fate. We chatted about this gloomy subject. I told him my own idea matched his. Suicide needs a big committment and guts when optimism can get in the way. Therefore, when all is hopeless, go ocean then just step off the boat for a swim knowing that you may not be able to climb back aboard. A desperate attempt to get back on board gives a chance to fate. Easier and less final than stepping off a high building. Not suicide just an apparant stupid thing to do. He laughed and said that was his plan too. It is surprising to have a secret plan for a situation that you later find is a shared by many.

Oooops bit gloomy. Sorry.

 

[capnsensible]

There's more to 'the Caribbean' than the West Indies. Could lose yourself there for ever. A friend of mine has spent twenty years going backwards and forwards by yacht, but for the last four, stays there. And he hasn't been to Venezuela, Columbia, Panama, etc. Yet.......

 

[BurnitBlue]

There's more to 'the Caribbean' than the West Indies. Could lose yourself there for ever. A friend of mine has spent twenty years going backwards and forwards by yacht, but for the last four, stays there. And he hasn't been to Venezuela, Columbia, Panama, etc. Yet.......

Yes. I downloaded a sailing book allegedly about the Caribbean. I was ouraged when it turned out to be a sail up a wide river for dozens of miles in a country called Costa Rica. I was expecting tiki punch stuff in Martinique.

 

[atol]

I think it is about Quality. I spent 5 years cruising the Caribbean,. My memories are about sailing, snorkling colourful reefs, white clean beaches, rum punch, sunsets etc.

I spent the last 7 years in the Med. My memories are about cafe's. Hanging on the anchor chain for dear life, heat and sweating, dirty smelly water, plastic bottles.

I realise the examples above indicate a bias to prove a point so I have really tried to find one thing apart from cafe's that will balance the equation. For that reason I did not compare anchoring in unsafe Med anchorages in violent winds from just about any direction at any time to anchoring in the Trade Wind belt in steady winds consistantly from the East. I have to be fair.

What about Thailand? Maldives, Red Sea. North Africa?

i have cruised in all the areas you mention,and then some!

If your budget is large then FIFO travel is entirely possible with plenty of safe places to leave a yacht in the carib apart from trinidad.
panama,columbia,bonaire and curacao all have safe hurricane free boat storage and good flight connections to europe.
with a boat that goes reasonably well to windward cuba,jamaica,dom rep ,turks and caicos,usa etc are easily reached during the trade wind season,then returning in may for storage and flight back to europe for summer,returning in november/dec.

currently with covid you are probably better sticking to doing the shengan shuffle between turkey and greece untill the situation resolves itself.

hurghada marina ,egypt as a base in the red sea with good air connections to europe would be an option if you like marsas ,diving etc,sudan you could spend a year there and never do the same anchorage twice!

langkawi in malaysia makes an excellent base for trips north to thaIand,south and east to singapre , indonesia,philipines etc all with excellent connections to europe and safe boat storgage

india cochin marina you could cruise south to sri lanka, maldives,chagos and return north for the monsoon season in june flying out for the europe summer.

nz and fiji,tonga,vanuatu,new caledonia circuit also would work for FIFO travel.

Agadir in morocco might also make a useful alternative to the canary islands for storage with the cape verdes,senegal gambia,(brazil) azores mainland europe,morocco curcuit to allow time in shengan and flights home.

i could go on!
but currently covid restrictions will define where you can and cant go more than shengan restrictions

 

[BurnitBlue]

i have cruised in all the areas you mention,and then some!

If your budget is large then FIFO travel is entirely possible with plenty of safe places to leave a yacht in the carib apart from trinidad.
panama,columbia,bonaire and curacao all have safe hurricane free boat storage and good flight connections to europe.
with a boat that goes reasonably well to windward cuba,jamaica,dom rep ,turks and caicos,usa etc are easily reached during the trade wind season,then returning in may for storage and flight back to europe for summer,returning in november/dec.

currently with covid you are probably better sticking to doing the shengan shuffle between turkey and greece untill the situation resolves itself.

hurghada marina ,egypt as a base in the red sea with good air connections to europe would be an option if you like marsas ,diving etc,sudan you could spend a year there and never do the same anchorage twice!

langkawi in malaysia makes an excellent base for trips north to thaIand,south and east to singapre , indonesia,philipines etc all with excellent connections to europe and safe boat storgage

india cochin marina you could cruise south to sri lanka, maldives,chagos and return north for the monsoon season in june flying out for the europe summer.

nz and fiji,tonga,vanuatu,new caledonia circuit also would work for FIFO travel.

Agadir in morocco might also make a useful alternative to the canary islands for storage with the cape verdes,senegal gambia,(brazil) azores mainland europe,morocco curcuit to allow time in shengan and flights home.

i could go on!
but currently covid restrictions will define where you can and cant go more than shengan restrictions

Thank you for that summary of cruising areas. Some of them are great to get to by boat but a real expedition by air with multiple aicraft changes. It is World full of islands isn't it. There is a book published somewhere called "So many islands so little Time". A group from this forum arranged an accompanied rally to Hurghada a few years ago. They were happy for the mass arrangement to transit the Suez canal. Be great if they organised another one soon.

You are spot on about Covid. Just few minutes ago I heard a news report from German DW saying that vacines may not work against the South African varient. Gee Whiz I hope they are wrong. Oh the gloom of it.

 

[Sea Devil]

Yes. I downloaded a sailing book allegedly about the Caribbean. I was ouraged when it turned out to be a sail up a wide river for dozens of miles in a country called Costa Rica. I was expecting tiki punch stuff in Martinique.

If it was one of mine email me michael@michaelbriant.com and I will refund you

 

[Sea Devil]

You are spot on about Covid. Just few minutes ago I heard a news report from German DW saying that vacines may not work against the South African varient. Gee Whiz I hope they are wrong. Oh the gloom of it.

Yes... I have been wondering if chickens were being counted before eggs...........

 

[atol]

If it was one of mine email me michael@michaelbriant.com and I will refund you

you should really send him a surcharge,you probably saved him from the Rio Dulce boat graveyard,Zika and Dengue fever!