Interesting Collision

ProMariner

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Sounds like he assumed that because the carrier was engaged in training, that it must have been engaged in flight ops, then because it was engaged in flight ops, that it was RAM, and if it was RAM, it was displaying the right signals, and if it was displaying the right signals, then the sailing vessel was keep clear. Lots of assumptions there.

If the many snoozy frigates getting run over recently proves anything, it's don't assume any of the thousand or so people on any grey funnel ship is actually keeping a seamanlike watch.

That said, can't assume the singlehander was keeping a seamanlike watch, or displaying lights, or chirping on AIS with radar reflecter rigged etc. either. There but by the grace of god....
 

Biggles Wader

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I wonder what the carrier's escort/security screen comander had to say about how they allowed a small boat to get up close and personal with their flagship. Good thing it wasnt revolutionary guards, ISIS nutters, Greenpeace, Jilets Jaunes or New Hebridean separatists eh?
 

Sandy

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laika

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Goodness. I gave up after 5 minutes. How can someone possibly take themselves so seriously and what is going on with those glasses? As ProMariner points out…that’s a big leap from “engaged in a training op” to “displaying RAM signals”. Plus he did use “Right of Way” rather a lot. Honestly I tried watching it all to see if it all made sense in the end but it was just too annoying. My but there is a lot of **** on YouTube.
 

john_morris_uk

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Goodness. I gave up after 5 minutes. How can someone possibly take themselves so seriously and what is going on with those glasses? As ProMariner points out…that’s a big leap from “engaged in a training op” to “displaying RAM signals”. Plus he did use “Right of Way” rather a lot. Honestly I tried watching it all to see if it all made sense in the end but it was just too annoying. My but there is a lot of **** on YouTube.
I agree. The constant references to ‘right of way’ in the video (and the comments) was almost as annoying as his pedantic slow delivery with assumptions piled on assumptions.
 

Topcat47

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Obviously not aimed at experienced mariners, but, I had occasion to attend an IN lecture at Warsash about the subject (collisions avoidance not failing to collide with aircraft carriers. The lecture was BIG on how inert large ships were and how difficult it is for them to deviate from their course. We yachts were advised to take action when the commercial vessel was at least 5 miles away. I remarked that my sailing vessel had a max speed of 6 knots on a good day under favourable conditions. most of the commercial vessels I came across were plowing their furrows at 20+ knots. From my cockpit, I would be unable to ascertain whether we were on a collision course when the commercial vessel was 5 miles away and what with all the deck lights at night I had enough trouble identifying the basic navigation lights without any of the others. For me, avoiding action was usually taken when the commercial vessel was less than a mile away and my preferred method was to turn away from the approaching bows and re-trace my steps. I was told that had the commercial vessel been taking avoiding action by changing course to go round my stern, this would have been a bad manoeuvre and I should have maintained a parallel course. Either way it represents a sphincter tightening situation.

This is fine and dandy on a modern 50'er with all the modern electronic bells and whistles but on a small yacht you really are at the mercy of providence and good seamanship.

PS I have been passed by a coaster in the early hours where the only body visible on the bridge was a large Dog.
 

Sandy

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Obviously not aimed at experienced mariners, but, I had occasion to attend an IN lecture at Warsash about the subject (collisions avoidance not failing to collide with aircraft carriers. The lecture was BIG on how inert large ships were and how difficult it is for them to deviate from their course. We yachts were advised to take action when the commercial vessel was at least 5 miles away. I remarked that my sailing vessel had a max speed of 6 knots on a good day under favourable conditions. most of the commercial vessels I came across were plowing their furrows at 20+ knots. From my cockpit, I would be unable to ascertain whether we were on a collision course when the commercial vessel was 5 miles away and what with all the deck lights at night I had enough trouble identifying the basic navigation lights without any of the others. For me, avoiding action was usually taken when the commercial vessel was less than a mile away and my preferred method was to turn away from the approaching bows and re-trace my steps. I was told that had the commercial vessel been taking avoiding action by changing course to go round my stern, this would have been a bad manoeuvre and I should have maintained a parallel course. Either way it represents a sphincter tightening situation.

This is fine and dandy on a modern 50'er with all the modern electronic bells and whistles but on a small yacht you really are at the mercy of providence and good seamanship.

PS I have been passed by a coaster in the early hours where the only body visible on the bridge was a large Dog.
I have always found that 'the big stuff' has taken avoiding action well before you are aware of them! One Manhattan (MMSI 431260000) snuck up behind me just after sunrise on a slate grey, late August morning when crossing the Thames Estuary in Black Deep Passage. I turned round and there she was about 3 NM off my port transom. I 'activated her track' on AIS in the space of 10 mins it was clear that she had put in 2° turn to port, she past and then put a 3° degree turn to get back on track. I held my course and speed as I was the vessel being overtaken.

A few nights later, when I was off watch, my crew radioed another ship as he was not comfortable with her course in the English Channel. He was assured that they had seen us and had made a course correction to avoid us.

I sail a 10 metre vessel with a few bells and whistles out of Plymouth where the 'Grey Funnel Fleet', the Royal Navy, have priority over all other traffic. Get to close and the men in black will make sure you don't get any closer or you get shot.
 

Stemar

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I'm fast coming to the conclusion that AIS is something I wouldn't want to be without when crossing the Channel or going further afield. Sure you can do it, I've done it myself several times and never done it with, just as many people did it without GPS, but if I were drawing up legal requirements for offshore sailing, (God forbid anyone should!) I'd put an AIS receiver on the list for all vessels and a transceiver for anything over about 10m.

I've no idea if it would have helped in the case under discussion, but it would make crossing shipping lanes safer and easier, not to mention less nerve-wracking. Dover-Calais in a sailing boat must teach you what a hedgehog feels like crossing the M25 ?
 

doris

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I thought he put it over very well. It wasn't aimed at the legal pedants of this forum who read the Colregs for their personal gratification and excitement , it was aimed at Joe Public. He spoke very clearly, and precisely to help the many people who would watch it who are not lucky enough to have English as first language. Remember that those people are fluent in at least one other language, that's one more than most on this forum.
And think about how many radar assisted problems there are involving very well read nautical people! Maybe he has done a post on that.
 

Topcat47

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AIS and/or Radar are only any good if you can keep a watch on it. This isn't possible when single handing when even if the screen is on deck, the Yachtsman has many other calls on his/her/its/their (pick the pronoun of choice) attention. I don't have AIS myself so I don't know if you can have audible or on-screen warning of the potential of standing into danger but I have been crew on boats when someone has been able to continuously monitor traffic on AIS and in these cases it seemed to be a valuable addition.
 

dunedin

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AIS and/or Radar are only any good if you can keep a watch on it. This isn't possible when single handing when even if the screen is on deck, the Yachtsman has many other calls on his/her/its/their (pick the pronoun of choice) attention. I don't have AIS myself so I don't know if you can have audible or on-screen warning of the potential of standing into danger but I have been crew on boats when someone has been able to continuously monitor traffic on AIS and in these cases it seemed to be a valuable addition.
When single handing, certainly if there is traffic around, the autopilot is always on the helm and the skipper is navigating and doing sail trim. Navigation role includes checking AIS, and Radar if in fog.
Also easier to determine precise CPA with autopilot on as tends to keep much more consistent course than a human helm - hence sometimes put AP on if an approaching ship, even if fully crewed.
If in empty waters we put the AIS alarm on, which warns if any target going to come within a user set range and time span. Unfortunately the alarm wouldn’t be much use in the Solent, or indeed perhaps crossing the channel, as would be going off constantly. Sadly our Raymarine kit doesn’t allow me to tag specific AIS targets as noted and allow alarm to be left on in case of new risks.
 
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