Insurance for long term layup ashore?

[Tim Good]

I've had quotes from Topsail and Knox Johnson for laying up in a good yard, with the master down and dry stored, in a cradle and fully covered. Both came in at £700 for my 43ft boat. This seems crazy as its the same price for being afloat when the risks are minimum. Or at least the only risk I can see for the underwriters is fire.

Has anyone else successfully insurance for yard storage at a decent rate?

Thanks

 

[jamie N]

Yachtline were very helpful when I brought my boat ashore for 2 years.

 

[ean_p]

I've had quotes from Topsail and Knox Johnson for laying up in a good yard, with the master down and dry stored, in a cradle and fully covered. Both came in at £700 for my 43ft boat. This seems crazy as its the same price for being afloat when the risks are minimum. Or at least the only risk I can see for the underwriters is fire.

Has anyone else successfully insurance for yard storage at a decent rate?

Thanks

47ft with Topsail £400-£500 ashore undercover. For the risk involved I still think it very very high but not found any cheaper as yet!

 

[langstonelayabout]

I had the same experience a few years ago when my boat was ashore for a year: the premium payable was the same as a year when she was in commission. I was told the risks are different (fire, damage from nearby boats, falling over, etc) but not less. Hence no change in premium.

 

[Tranona]

Same with me. Laid up ashore for several years at essentially the same premium as afloat. Risk is claimed to be similar, but different types. Yacht insurance is still "cheap", particularly the all risks bit which covers fire theft and damage. If you break down the premium, about £150-200 is for third party, so my premium of £450 total is actually less than £300 for an agreed value of £100k. Insurer HKJ through Topsail.

 

[Tim Good]

47ft with Topsail £400-£500 ashore undercover. For the risk involved I still think it very very high but not found any cheaper as yet!

Any chance you could om me your name and policy number so I can ask why my smaller boat is 30% more than your policy?

 

[Tranona]

Insurance is in 2 parts. third party which is largely fixed, and all risks which is a function of value, not size of boat. Variations occur because of area of operation or where boat based - for example Med normally 20-30% more expensive than UK reflecting greater cost of dealing with claims and repairs. Then subject to discounts, most common is "marina" discount, which in my case is 10% and no claims, for me 22.5%. My boat is only 33' and the gross premium is £630 because it is nearly new and high agreed value.

The thing to remember is that the vast majority of claims do not arise from incidents when the boat is at sea (although of course certain types of sailing, for example long distance or crossing the Bay of Biscay are more risky and attract a loading - 20% for me when I planned that trip) but are from damage incurred while the boat is moored or laid up. For most UK type cruising boats this is more than 90% of the time.

 

[savageseadog]

Lots of hazards ashore. Falling over or being fallen onto, being driven into by cars, hoist etc, vandalism and/or break-ins, theft, fire.

 

[Mistroma]

I did find a significant reduction for a fully laid up policy vs. cont. cruising for this coming season. However, there were issues.

Y-Yachts (now Topsail) only came up with Admiralty and I can do that online myself. The policy had restrictions and disease related limitations.

1) Mast inspection pre-launch
Won't be until May 2022 at the earliest

2) Inspection every 30 days when laid up
I queried it as they won't pay any claim unless:

I make appropriate arrangements for the regular inspection and care of the vessel when not in use for a period exceeding 30 days and when stationed outside your usual country of residence.​

The reply was:

The requirement for regular care and inspection of boats left unattended outside the owner’s usual country of residence results from a spate of claims arising where boats, in the Med and in the Caribbean, had been “abandoned” with no hint of even cursory inspection. The problem in the Med related to boats left afloat rather than ashore and, on a case by case basis, I am willing to consider removing the guardianage requirement, which I am doing here but only during storage ashore at current yard.​

I would want an acceptable written schedule (internal, external, level of detail, which systems etc.) before even considering such a requirement. However, they have agreed to "consider" removing the requirement in the current yard.

3) Covid exclusion & communicable disease endorsement
They exclude any loss, damage, liability, cost, or expense directly arising from the transmission or alleged transmission of Covid (and a long list covering anything vaguely similar). It even covers any fear of threat from Covid, including cost of clean-up detox etc. even when it is just due to fear of Covid.

The communicable disease endorsement covers everything you can imagine and any means of transmission (not just Covid or bacteria, fungii, you name it). The disease doesn't need to damage health, just threaten damage to, deterioration of, loss of value of, marketability of or loss of use of property insured hereunder.

4) Fire extinguishers
Requirement for fire extinguishing system in the engine compartment (either automatic or operable from the helm). Also a 2kg or more extinguisher for the galley.

I think that there are quite a few other constraints which easily allow denial of a claim (more than usual).

The cont. cruising renewal was about the same as last year. I did ask them to consider the fact that she'd been laid up since Oct. 2019 and not re-launch until at least May 22. I received a 33% reduction for fully laid up.

I pointed out that I might want to launch towards the end of the policy and it would be useful to get something in between.
e.g.
Cost of altering laid up to in service for a few months or cost of a laid up policy for ~70%-75% of a full year.

I was offered the shorter policy for 70% for the same amount as a full year laid up, plus an additional admin. charge.

I am obviously considering other quotes (none of which have similar constraints).

 

[Straightman21]

I had the same quote whether afloat or ashore. The yard is secure and they carry insurance for accidents such as falling over / being fallen upon etc. I've disconnected the batteries so only remote chance of fire so have left her uninsured.

 

[Tim Good]

I had the same quote whether afloat or ashore. The yard is secure and they carry insurance for accidents such as falling over / being fallen upon etc. I've disconnected the batteries so only remote chance of fire so have left her uninsured.

I think most yards require insurance. Other wise yeah I would self insure.

 

[Tranona]

Yards only require third party insurance so you are free to self insure the all risks element. will save you about £450-£500 a year.

 

[Tranona]

I had the same quote whether afloat or ashore. The yard is secure and they carry insurance for accidents such as falling over / being fallen upon etc. I've disconnected the batteries so only remote chance of fire so have left her uninsured.

The yard only insures against their negligence - not yours. So you are open to third party claims against you personally for any damage your boat causes. While self insurer the asset itself means you can quantify the potential loss, third party claims are effectively unlimited. would it not be better to have your insurer deal with such claims rather than you personally?

 

[Tim Good]

would it not be better to have your insurer deal with such claims rather than you personally?

That is an entirely different discussion topic on the merits and risks of insurance and if the person in question has the funds to deal with it. I'd prefer not to get into that or debate it haha

 

[Minerva]

2) Inspection every 30 days when laid up
I queried it as they won't pay any claim unless:

I make appropriate arrangements for the regular inspection and care of the vessel when not in use for a period exceeding 30 days and when stationed outside your usual country of residence.​

I had wondered why a I had started to see / started to notice a few yards offering a service to check boats each month (for a tidy monthly fee) this year when looking for winter storage.

I wonder if this will become more commonplace for insurance policies over the winter?

 

[Tranona]

That is an entirely different discussion topic on the merits and risks of insurance and if the person in question has the funds to deal with it. I'd prefer not to get into that or debate it haha

Just pointing out that self insurance of the asset is of a very different order to self insuring against unlimited third party claims. Don't have any problem with the former because as you say that is a personal quantifiable decision whereas the later is not. The probability is small which is why third party insurance is cheap. It is almost certainly a condition of storage in a yard that the owner should have third party insurance.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Just pointing out that self insurance of the asset is of a very different order to self insuring against unlimited third party claims. Don't have any problem with the former because as you say that is a personal quantifiable decision whereas the later is not. The probability is small which is why third party insurance is cheap. It is almost certainly a condition of storage in a yard that the owner should have third party insurance.

Basic Boat Insurance 3rd party policies are cheap and cover time afloat and stored ashore. Not arguing, just illustrating!

 

[Tranona]

I know which is why I questioned the wisdom of not insuring third party.

Just yesterday a large catamaran caught fire in Parkstone marina. Don't know if it spread to other boats but is a classic example where insurers of other boats will pursue the owner of the boat that started the fire. Same with boats falling over in storage. You really don't want to get into such fights - leave it to the insurers to sort it out.

 

[LittleSister]

The yard only insures against their negligence - not yours. So you are open to third party claims against you personally for any damage your boat causes. While self insurer the asset itself means you can quantify the potential loss, third party claims are effectively unlimited. would it not be better to have your insurer deal with such claims rather than you personally?

Exactly so.

I have a boat in storage. It is worth peanuts in the current market, and itself is hardly worth the cost of insurance, given the very low likelihood of a loss.

In the immediate vicinity of my boat, however, are other boats probably collectively worth in the millions. If my boat, or me working on it, resulted in even just one of them being lost or seriously damaged I would be bankrupted and facing a ton of other grief. (At least one of them belongs to another forumite, so I might be drummed out of here, too! )

Even if my boat disintegrated or was destroyed by fire, yet miraculously didn't damage the surrounding boats, the yard costs for the clean up and removal of the remains would be financially disastrous for me.