Insurance again

[lumphammer]

So only two and a half months to go and I thought I would ask my insurance company what cover if any they could give me for the JC 08. Unsurprisingly the answer was a predictable - none!
I would have liked at least 3rd party for the Azores, but they couldn't do that either.
Has anyone successfully got any insurance? If not, what are your opinions on going with none (which is what I intend to do)?

 

[NickiCrutchfield]

Pantaenius are not the cheapest, but I have always been with them as they do pretty much what you ask them to. Very fast payers also which is a bonus. I can heartily recommend them.
Nicki

 

[Jake]

Hi Lumphammer

At the 2007 ExCel show, I asked Joe Field of Navigators and General (part of the Zurich group) if he would consider a special third-party policy for the Jesters. He's still saying 'Eeeerm...' but it might be worth another approach. The company sponsor a river race on the Broads, which looks like it should breed several claims!

Third party risk should be fairly low, as the only things we are likely to hit will probably do much more damage to us than we do to them. The only exception, of course, is fishing gear, and other competitors/Arc contestants. (Bet I ram a Halberg...)

As an aside, my ferro boat was uninsurable (no survey, uncertain parentage) but Pantanieus offered me third party on it, which wasn't too crippling. They also have a system whereby they automatically re-insure you when the policy lapses, and then chase you for payment!
This saves you sailing around uninsured when you forget it's due.

Maybe they would like to do a one-off premium for Jester? I'll ask...

A bit like classic bikes, Jester needs a compassionate insurer on side!

I'll keep you posted on any special race deals, as GJW don't cover me for the trip either...yet.

I wonder if Joe has stopped saying 'Eeerm' yet. At least he's been across Biscay on a small yacht in a storm.

 

[lumphammer]

I spoke to Pantaenius and got the following response: -
"Having submitted the details of your proposal to our underwriters, I regret to advise you that they have declined to offer a quotation for insurance based on the Pantaenius Yacht Scheme. We unfortunately do not specialise in your type of vessel."

I will try Navigators and General, has anyone any experience of the RYA scheme through Bishop & Skinner?

 

[NickiCrutchfield]

Hi again,
Did Pantaenius give you a reason for declining? I only ask as they have a policy of not insuring boats over the age of 30 years. However, they have insured 2 of my boats over that age, one which was built in 1965 and the other in 1974. It was done as a special underwriting, but they did it. it may be something they do for existing customers I'm not sure. Is your boat over 30 years old? they have also just quoted me for my Achilles 24 which I think was made in about 1970 odd as it is number 40.
I'm not sure, but I think they offered 2006 JC insurance. Forgive me if I am wrong in this respect.
I'm only plugging them because, once insured, they really are very geared to the sailor and you can add and subtract geographical areas as you need them. There are obviously costs incurred in this.
I hope you find someone who will insure you.
Cheers,
Nicki

 

[nickrj]

Pantaenius insured my 1972 Contessa 26 last year - I couldn't afford to keep the policy up (even though it was 3rd party and very affordable).

If you just want 3rd party, why bother? Just be careful in the marina - You're certainly not going to damage anyone out at sea...

 

[lumphammer]

No they didn't specify why they didn't specialise in my sort of boat. It was built in 1981 so the 30 year limit shouldn't apply. I assume it is either because it doesn't fit within one of their accepted manufacturers, or it is the single handed element.
Their on-line quote system allows you to select from their database of boats, unfortunately the Achilles 840 isn't in there.

Nickrj: I expect that that will be my policy, I will just try not to get damaged until I get back to the Brest to Elbe sea area /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[savageseadog]

Pantaenius have no min crew limits. But they are the best insurance company. I can say that as we've had two major claims (one very expensive mast fracture and one even more expensive claim for being rammed while on a visitors mooring (boat left unattended, new toe rails, gel repairs etc))

I have been with them for years now with my current yacht but they won't quote on certain types. When i approached them for a quote for a Prima 38 i was looking into they said no. Funnily enough though they could offer me cover on X362-Sport.

 

[andlauer]

Bonjour
I confirm that Pantaenius had a special offer for the (GB) JC06.
I know that some of us (GB) are there.
I don't know if they have been approached "collectivelly" as for the JAC08.
Eric

 

[NickiCrutchfield]

Ah. Thanks Eric. I thought that was the case.
Nicki

 

[neale]

Surely if everyone could avoid accidents by just' being careful' no one would need insurance at all. I for one like to know that other boats moving close to me in a marina are insured.

 

[nickrj]

Insurance is a business of statistics. If there were so many accidents happening all the time, premiums would be unaffordable, or the entire industry wouldn't exist...

Anyway, to counter my own argument, this morning I met a young German couple that dismasted in Biscay (not from a storm, just poorly installed stays) and had their boat towed, as well as being rescued via helicopter. This entire operation cost 22,000euros. Luckily they had insurance, and were only out of pocket 3,000euro for the premium...

n.

 

[PacketRat]

[ QUOTE ]
no one would need insurance at all

[/ QUOTE ]
No one does need insurance at all.
So far as I'm aware.
Robin.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no one would need insurance at all

[/ QUOTE ]
No one does need insurance at all.
So far as I'm aware.
Robin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends where. Many UK harbours/ marinas/ local-authority-run-slipways (& Nat Trust) now require insurance - even for dinghies - a case of 'em covering their backsides against possible legal claims. Some EU countries (Spain, ?Italy) threaten to prosecute if you enter their waters without insurance, or without an ICC. Dunno if this has actually happened yet. I'd rather have terrorists than damned bureaucrats, any day.
Colin

 

[damo]

"a case of 'em covering their backsides against possible legal claims"

No, not for that reason in a marina (though there is bound to be an element of that). Berth holders are paying for a safe, secure and convenient berth, and they need to know that anyone who rams them etc is going to be able to pay for the damage. The marina doesn't want to be sued for damages caused by someone else; fuel spillage could be a major environmental incident, and containment and cleanup of a tank of diesel could easily run into 10's of £k's; and you wouldn't believe (or maybe you would !) the number of boats who drive off and drag the shore power socket after them, so why should a marina have to pay for that if the customer says he can't?

So the simple answer is: No Insurance? No Entry! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[PacketRat]

[ QUOTE ]
No Insurance? No Entry! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
My case is unarguable, but I'm sticking to it anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
To be honest, I'm a hypocrite. I insure third party. I lack confidence in my seamanship abilities. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Robin

 

[andlauer]

Bonjour
Insurance is not a question of statistic but of risk mitigation.
You should be covered by an insurance for all the risks you are not able to cover by yourself.
Third party may be rare but very expensive! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

There are so little recommandations for the JAC that we may follow them ! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Eric

 

[benjy1966]

Ahoy All,

When we crossed the pond in '05 we thought about insurance but were refused right across the board, even Pantaenius. Not one company was interested in the make of boat or our experience. All they wanted to know was how long and how many aboard. Since we were two on a 24 footer we stood no chance. It annoyed me that the insurance companies will only take what looks to them good risks. I think this approach is disgusting. consequently, we left with no insurance, had a great time, didn't put one scratch on the boat and saved a ton of cash in the process.

Until the day that insurance companies start assessing the individual claim and stop relying on statistics it is very unlikely that I will bother with insurance. I think the whole thing a great big scam!

Insurance won't stop your mast falling on your head by the way. The best insurance is to take care of your ship and keep a good look out.

 

[andlauer]

Bonjour
Insurance are : expensive /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif, useless, /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif stupid /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif,... before



but not after ! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Eric

 

[lumphammer]

Agreed, Eric.

But like Benjy I have tried several insurance companies and none are prepared to offer any cover. So while my prefered choice would be to be insured for JAC 08, it looks like I will have to gamble that I won't need it.
Obviously, I can then shorten the odds in my favour by making sure the boat and myself are as prepared as possible.