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Insurance advice after **** day

Clyde_Wanderer

New member
Joined
15 Jun 2006
Messages
2,829
Location
Glasgow





Quite a bit of damage done to my boat today.
Broken mast and roller furling kit.
Compression damage at to two areas of hull below waterline, in vacinity of starboard mid and aft cradle pads resulting in a detached bulkhead in locker below quarter berth.
Broken danbouy mounting tube and danbouy shaft/pole.
Damage to toerail and strake.

Do I claim from my insurers or the other boat owner's insurance, or the latter through my insurers?
I have notified my insurers and they have emailed me a claim form, so should I fill it in?
Would I be liable for excess?
I do have details of the other owners' insurer, and he (owner) is very helpful.
His boat fell of its shores.
C_W
 

Spyro

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Joined
18 Jan 2003
Messages
7,531
Location
Clyde
Eamonn.
Really bad news, sorry to see such mess. I don't know how you stand with the insurance. I would have thought it was up to the insurance companies to sort it out. They should advose you. I see your's is in a cradle. I don't think the others should have been shored up without the mast removed. Even the one next to yours doesn't appear to have any cross bracing.
I know you are very capable at repairs yourself but you should be looking at professional estimates. A new mast and rigging and hull repairs will add up to quite a bit. Sorry to say it but you could be looking at worst case scenario.
 

Elessar

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Joined
10 Jul 2003
Messages
8,127
Location
River Itchen, Southampton





Quite a bit of damage done to my boat today.
Broken mast and roller furling kit.
Compression damage at to two areas of hull below waterline, in vacinity of starboard mid and aft cradle pads resulting in a detached bulkhead in locker below quarter berth.
Broken danbouy mounting tube and danbouy shaft/pole.
Damage to toerail and strake.

Do I claim from my insurers or the other boat owner's insurance, or the latter through my insurers?
I have notified my insurers and they have emailed me a claim form, so should I fill it in?
Would I be liable for excess?
I do have details of the other owners' insurer, and he (owner) is very helpful.
His boat fell of its shores.
C_W
How upsetting.
Boats though, as personal as they are, are completely mendable.
Yes, go through your insurers. They will almost certainly reclaim it all and you will have no penalty. And your boat will be mended faster that way.
Good luck, and if no one was hurt, smile :).
 

Clyde_Wanderer

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15 Jun 2006
Messages
2,829
Location
Glasgow
Eamonn.
Really bad news, sorry to see such mess. I don't know how you stand with the insurance. I would have thought it was up to the insurance companies to sort it out. They should advose you. I see your's is in a cradle. I don't think the others should have been shored up without the mast removed. Even the one next to yours doesn't appear to have any cross bracing.
I know you are very capable at repairs yourself but you should be looking at professional estimates. A new mast and rigging and hull repairs will add up to quite a bit. Sorry to say it but you could be looking at worst case scenario.
Afraid Ian that if insurers dont cough up HB will be getting scrapped.
I certainly couldent fork out 10-12k for new mast, rigging, and furling gear.
I would have hoped that the other boat owner's insurers would pay up.
What I really want to know is should I claim through my insurers, GJW?
C_W
 

sarabande

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Joined
6 May 2005
Messages
34,057
Location
up on the moors.
use the insurance company to do the work - that's what they take the premiums for. Don't do the work yourself, however compelling the emotional importance of getting something done quickly.



It surpasses all understanding how and why yards can allow oil drums and pitprops to be used for supporting boats, given the availability and sophisticated design of cradles...... So predictable an accident.


If the yard propped your neighbour's boat up with shores, their insurance company will have to pay out on his boat and yours.
 
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AntarcticPilot

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Joined
4 May 2007
Messages
6,755
Location
Cambridge, UK
I'm terribly sorry to see this! I can't advise about the insurance; thankfully I've no experience of claiming on boat insurance, except to say I hope it's better than travel insurance! I've been sitting 400 miles away hoping for the best today - even in Cambridge it is pretty windy. But JWDM notified me an hour or two ago that I'd have already heard if there was any problem.

Let's hope you can get Hummingbird back in her natural element in time for a meeting next year.
 

bedouin

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Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
27,220
100% go through your insurance. What makes you sure the owner of the other boat is liable? Perhaps it is whoever propped the boat up - or perhaps it is just an Act of God. Just not worth getting into that sort of argument if you want to be sailing again this decade.
 

Spyro

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18 Jan 2003
Messages
7,531
Location
Clyde
Afraid Ian that if insurers dont cough up HB will be getting scrapped.
I certainly couldent fork out 10-12k for new mast, rigging, and furling gear.
I would have hoped that the other boat owner's insurers would pay up.
What I really want to know is should I claim through my insurers, GJW?
C_W
Eamonn, I wasn't suggesting you wont be ok with your insurance I meant they might find it an uneconomical repair. Not sure what the percentage would be for boats. As you say 10-12k plus any labour costs which we all know are ridiculous. Insurance will want surveys etc of damage and accident site so don't move anything and get plenty photos. have to agree with others. The other guys insurance may not pay up if they find it was incorrectly or insufficiently propped. But your insurance should still cover you even if no-one elses does. There's nothing you could have done to prevent this other than being somewhere else. I'll be interested to see how you get on with GJW as that is who I'm with.
 
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Clyde_Wanderer

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15 Jun 2006
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Glasgow
Let your insurance handle it all. You MAY suffer loss of no-claims, but that's cheap at the price. Looks like it might be the yard insurance that will meet the cost - unless that's a club's yard.
Not sure who is responsible for the shoreing but assuming it was the yard, would my claim not still be with the other boat owner's insurer? after all it was his boat that done the damage.

No worries Ian, they could well write it off, dont know would that be a good or bad thing at the moment.
C_W
 
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Spyro

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18 Jan 2003
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7,531
Location
Clyde
Not sure who is responsible for the shoreing but assuming it was the yard, would my claim not still be with the other boat owner's insurer? after all it was his boat that done the damage.

No worries Ian, they could well write it off, dont know would that be a good or bad thing at the moment.
C_W
IMHO You don't claim off anybody you let the insurance company know they details and they decide who to claim or pay up. That's what you pay them for.
 

BlueSkyNick

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29 Apr 2003
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11,770
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Near a marina, sailing club and pub
Not sure who is responsible for the shoreing but assuming it was the yard, would my claim not still be with the other boat owner's insurer? after all it was his boat that done the damage.

C_W
As others have said it is up to your insurer's to sort that out

Hope they do so quickly - I hear GJW are good at handling claims. I hope so because I have just transferred to them!
 

bedouin

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16 May 2001
Messages
27,220
Not sure who is responsible for the shoreing but assuming it was the yard, would my claim not still be with the other boat owner's insurer? after all it was his boat that done the damage.
It's not that simple. I think to claim off the other owner you would need to prove negligence, and that they owed you a duty of care. Even the people who shored the boat up may not be liable
 

Kylora

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25 Feb 2005
Messages
672
Location
Tarbert Harbour, East Loch Tarbert, Loch Fyne, Sco
Sorry

Eamonn,

I'm very sorry to see and read of the damage to HB. As others have said, you should go through your insurers. My broker offers optional legal assistance, but I never take it but it could be handy if things got sticky.

I would have thought that it would fall to the insurers of the company who propped the boat to pay out, but there might be something in the small print of your contract with the yard.

I got a boaty christmas card from Tom and Moira today - I'm sure that you would have got one too. It might be worthwhile phoning Tom for a bit of advice.

The big worry would be that a insurance company declares HB an uneconomic repair, and just pays out her insured value. Could you replace her for that figure? You could buy her off the insurance company and use the money to repair her yourself with your skills and labour and a secondhand rig.You would need to be very sure of the total damage, ie, has the mast compression damaged the coachroof, etc.

Ash
 

Pleiades

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Joined
3 Apr 2006
Messages
473
Location
Fowey
Insurance advice

Dear Clyde Wanderer, commiserations, If you ever get south before your boat is shipshape again you are welcome to come for some cruising therapy on Pleiades.
Regarding the insurance issue - firstly I hope you have valid insurance of course. Your insurers might try to wiggle if you have not told them where the boat is when ashore but assuming you usually keep her ashore there and the Insurers are aware of that, then you should be ok in the end. I say in the end because this will take some time to sort out - think of a sensible time then double it. ( I am still waiting for full settlment some 4 years after a claim against a boat (with a drunk skipper ) that rammed my boat when I was docked.)
Secondly, you will almost certainly find in your "Conditions" small print that you are obliged to inform your insurers as it is material to their risk that the boat has suffered severe damage. I would not even consider personally claiming against the other insurer - your Insurers have the expertise -let them get on with it.
Thirdly, you can ultimately hope to have most but not all expenses re-imbursed. Initially you will have to pay the excess and will loose your "no claims" status until the matter is resolved but in this case it appears that your Insurers will be able to make a successfull claim against either the Insurers of the other craft or - and this may take much longer to litigate, the yard which propped the boat up or at least permitted it to be stored ashore with clearly inadequate cross bracing (judging by the other boats pictured) and with the mast still up. (It is generally accepted that fin or long keel boats should have the mast down when stored ashore - a short term prop up for repairs etc may be a different situation.)
It is again normally a condition of having a boat on port or marina hard standing that the craft has adequate 3rd party cover. I can't see much of an opening for the insurers of the fallen craft to argue that your boat contributed to the accident in any way.
So in the end I think you will get reimbursmement and if your insurers are fully re-imbursed themselves from an accident which was not your fault you may get some part of your "no claims" re-instated. You will still spend much time, effort and some money chasing and sorting and getting quotes etc but that is not recoverable.
And lastly, insist on professional repairs from firms experienced in yacht grp work and proper riggers, not a handyman with some resin,a bit of glass mat and some spare stays.
Good luck Sir (or Madam)
Robin

Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
 

trapezeartist

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4 Sep 2009
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1,891
Location
Portishead
Along with everyone, I'd say go through your own insurers. That's what you have insurance for.

In your own future interest it would be best if your insurance company claimed off someone else's insurance (boat owner or boatyard presumably) and then applied no penalty to you either in the form of lost no-claims or upping the premium next year. Therefore I would suggest entering into an informal dialogue with them in parallel with submitting the claim form.

I've always been staggered by the way some people prop up a yacht with a few oil drums and bits of wood.:eek: The only surprise is that they don't fall over more often. In our marina, fin keel boats must use a proper cradle. I would anyway.
 

Seajet

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23 Sep 2010
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29,143
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West Sussex / Hants
Clyde Wanderer,

very sorry to see your boat - and yourself - suffer this way.

I'd think a precedent was set in the October 1987 Hurricane in southern England, when a lot of boats ashore were blown over, many suffering a 'domino effect'.

I thought using oil drums as shores went out right then, and frankly leaving a boat shored up with a rig still standing to vibrate and shake everything loose is madness...

As others have said, get your insurers to sort it out; if they're anything as crooked as car insurers you may well lose your NCB, but this is probably not the time to worry about that !

Good luck, I hope you and HB are sailing for the next season; if not, add that to the costs charged, seriously !
 

BlowingOldBoots

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5 Aug 2009
Messages
15,715
Location
Scotland.
Sorry to see that and read about the damage. My only comment is that if I was in this position I would notify my own insurers.

At Largs Marina it is forbidden to have a raised mast on shoring but one can have a raised mast on a steel cradle. The shoring on the yacht with the red antifouling to your starboard is woefully inadequate if I compare to yachts at Largs Marina. As others have said ties and struts should have been used to brace the shores.

Some advice that I can give you with regards to claims made over the years on vehicles, houses and my yacht; inform yourself. By this I mean don't rely on the insurance company to have your best interests at heart. For example: I would establish now what was best practice for shoring up yachts with a view to informing the insurance company if need be to make a case. They can be more willing to support your position (as opposed to just administering a claim) if they perceive that you are informed.

Best of luck.
 

longjohnsilver

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Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
16,844
use the insurance company to do the work - that's what they take the premiums for. Don't do the work yourself, however compelling the emotional importance of getting something done quickly.



It supasses all understanding how and why yards can allow oil drums and pitprops to be used for supporting boats, given the availability and sophisticated design of cradles...... So predictable an accident.


If the yard propped your neighbour's boat up with shores, their insurance company will have to pay out on his boat and yours.
I'd agree with this BUT do speak with GJW and let them decide how to proceed.

Horrible position to be in, hope it's all resolved to your satisfaction. At least it's not just before the season starts and gives you quite a few months to get things sorted.
 
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