Installing a replacement inboard engine Your DIY Experienceds please

[thesaintlyone]

Oki I know there is plenty of advice from those of you who say a boat with a bad/old engine is best avoided and I am taking that on board (pun intended) ? but I would also like to hear from those of you who have replaced your inboards. What are your experiences thoughts tips regrets, costs
Did you only buy brand new or did any of you use a low hours unit so commonly found in the apolloduck page's
What are the pro's and Cons of DIY Installs


Only DIy'ers please!!!

I do understand throwing money after old but with a generally solid boat worth some decent money is it really that bad an idea have an opportunity to get my long sought after Longbow at a price that factors in replacing the MD11.

 

[GHA]

I ditched a bukh 20 for a beta 35 on a steel boat. All in all not too onerous. Fair bit of work, added a new day tank, exhaust needwd replaced. The alignment I nearly farmed out but did it myself in the end which wasn't as hard s expected.

 

[prv]

did any of you use a low hours unit so commonly found in the apolloduck page's

Do such things exist? Engines generally fail before hulls, and I can't imagine anyone wanting to remove a healthy small diesel from a yacht except in very unusual circumstances. Surely most second-hand engines have been removed because they were tired and unreliable enough for their owners to want to replace them? Potentially still a worthwhile buy for someone who knows what they're getting, but it sounds like you already have a tired and unreliable engine to work with if that were the case?

Pete

 

[thesaintlyone]

Ive seen some advertised that have been removed from life boats generally volvos that are the same fitted to cruising yachts. Just wondering on the viability of such.
The thought is really to go with eyes open and rather than throw money refurbishing the MD11 beyond basic Service parts look to replace if its no good.

Regards

 

[thesaintlyone]

This company

Marine Enterprises Seems To Have a Few Options http://www.marineenterprisesltd.co.uk/

 

[Kelpie]

Quite a good comprehensive writeup of a fellow forumite's experience: http://www.bluemoment.com/betainstallation.html

 

[macd]

Yes, Kelpie, there's plenty of hands-on experience on line, such as this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...8ZLYEswRGjHj8jHHQ&sig2=rQn28n6zjrKCjp8OM45CIw

Google should find plenty more.

Replacing an engine shouldn't be beyond anyone with reasonable practical skills. For anyone wary of of lectrickery, much of the wiring is effectively plug-and-play, except for the high-amperage bits.

Some elements you'd need help with -- hiring a HIAB to crane out the old and drop in the new, for instance. (For lighter engines you may be able to manage with the boom.) Overall, re-engining is a priceless opportunity to re-assess aspects such as fuel, exhaust and drive shaft systems and revise as necessary. This, plus engine bearers, is usually the most time-consuming aspect of the job. Actually slotting the engine in takes no time at all.

Often the biggest jobs is revising or replacing the engine bearers. It's worth being meticulous in measuring up the existing set-up and calculating the new one. Indeed this might ultimately sway the choice of new engine type. Beta (and maybe others) will supply custom feet to allow their engines to fit existing bearers. At a cost of around £150, this can be money well-spent.

Once installed, it's wise to get a professional to check and sign off the installation. This may be mandated to preserve the warranty.

Above all, think about the job and the options very thoroughly in advance. Then give yourself plenty of time. Do it once and do it right.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I've re-engined two previous boats and rebuilt the engine in our current one.

We always bought new. First was a Yanmar 1GM10 that I put in a SCOD I rebuilt and the second was a Nanni that I put in a Sigma 33.

The cost of bits and pieces always came to more than I thought. (Propeller, shaft, exhaust hose etc)

I've used the boom to lift in and out without a moments worry. (Although slinging the engine over the side is interesting)
A chain hoist is the easiest way to do the lifting and I wish I could fix the person who borrowed mine and hasn't returned it!

PM me to swap telephone numbers if you want to chat about things.

 

[Tranona]

Ive seen some advertised that have been removed from life boats generally volvos that are the same fitted to cruising yachts. Just wondering on the viability of such.
The thought is really to go with eyes open and rather than throw money refurbishing the MD11 beyond basic Service parts look to replace if its no good.

Regards

Volvos are not used in lifeboats, they are usually Bukh or Yanmar. Not all can be used directly in yachts as they are sometimes keel cooled and lack electrics. You have to know what you are doing to buy one of these. While the Bukh was a good engine in its day, they are mostly seawater cooled and many that are for sale have been removed from boats because they are getting uneconomic to run.

Some of the engines that Marine Enterprises offer are indeed worth looking at, but many are not current models and this is reflected in the price. However the better ones do represent a saving of around 40-50% from new, but of course you have to accept the spec they are and you don't get a manufacturers warranty.

As for the process of fitting the new engine, it is a DIY job, but you will find if you are replacing an old Volvo, everything in the driveline has to be replaced, either because it does not fit the new engine, or, like the old engine is worn out. so, new exhaust, fuel system, electrics, controls, stern gear including prop. The engine bearers will need to be modified as the mount footprint of the new engine will be different. The cost of all this is likely to be around £1500.

So, difficult to do it, even with a used engine for less than £4k, and more likely nearer £5k. The difference in price between a Centaur with a modern engine and one with an MD11 or MD2 is usually far less than this, and one with a modern engine is more likely to be in better condition overall. Boats like you are looking at are essentially worthless, which is why asking prices are so low. Much better to save up and buy a fully functioning boat with modern engine, good sails etc unless you have loads of time and an open ended cheque book.

I have done two engines swaps, first from a Stuart Turner to a Yanmar 1GM, where I had to do all that I listed above, and then from the 1GM to a Nanni 14, which was an easy swap as the footprint is almost identical and only mods to cooling, controls and exhaust required.

 

[25931]

Oki I know there is plenty of advice from those of you who say a boat with a bad/old engine is best avoided and I am taking that on board (pun intended) �� but I would also like to hear from those of you who have replaced your inboards. What are your experiences thoughts tips regrets, costs
Did you only buy brand new or did any of you use a low hours unit so commonly found in the apolloduck page's
What are the pro's and Cons of DIY Installs


Only DIy'ers please!!!

I do understand throwing money after old but with a generally solid boat worth some decent money is it really that bad an idea have an opportunity to get my long sought after Longbow at a price that factors in replacing the MD11.

Older grp hulls in good nick can last forever and many are for sale at a low price because of the engine. When the old Yanmar 1GM became totally unreliable we replaced it with a Beta 16 and only wish that we had done it sooner. It wasn't a big job for two handymen although it took a bit longer than we had imagined. Lifting in and out with the boom wasn't difficult.

 

[thesaintlyone]

Volvos are not used in lifeboats, they are usually Bukh or Yanmar. Not all can be used directly in yachts as they are sometimes keel cooled and lack electrics. You have to know what you are doing to buy one of these. While the Bukh was a good engine in its day, they are mostly seawater cooled and many that are for sale have been removed from boats because they are getting uneconomic to run.

Some of the engines that Marine Enterprises offer are indeed worth looking at, but many are not current models and this is reflected in the price. However the better ones do represent a saving of around 40-50% from new, but of course you have to accept the spec they are and you don't get a manufacturers warranty.

As for the process of fitting the new engine, it is a DIY job, but you will find if you are replacing an old Volvo, everything in the driveline has to be replaced, either because it does not fit the new engine, or, like the old engine is worn out. so, new exhaust, fuel system, electrics, controls, stern gear including prop. The engine bearers will need to be modified as the mount footprint of the new engine will be different. The cost of all this is likely to be around £1500.

So, difficult to do it, even with a used engine for less than £4k, and more likely nearer £5k. The difference in price between a Centaur with a modern engine and one with an MD11 or MD2 is usually far less than this, and one with a modern engine is more likely to be in better condition overall. Boats like you are looking at are essentially worthless, which is why asking prices are so low. Much better to save up and buy a fully functioning boat with modern engine, good sails etc unless you have loads of time and an open ended cheque book.

I have done two engines swaps, first from a Stuart Turner to a Yanmar 1GM, where I had to do all that I listed above, and then from the 1GM to a Nanni 14, which was an easy swap as the footprint is almost identical and only mods to cooling, controls and exhaust required.

Thanks Tranona This is not for the centaur out of the blue the owner of the Longbow I was looking at originally has agreed on a price that is very favourable.
As you say its not worth the agro on a centaur as selling prices are lower. But Longbows are well over £10k and even in factoring in a replacement engine I still get a solid boat for reasonable money.

 

[nauticalnomad]

I replaced my 45 yr old Perkins with a Nanni. Best thing ive ever done. If i had to do it again id opt for the Beta. They have more options and will fabricate engine mounts to suit old engine mount footprints..

 

[Tranona]

Thanks Tranona This is not for the centaur out of the blue the owner of the Longbow I was looking at originally has agreed on a price that is very favourable.
As you say its not worth the agro on a centaur as selling prices are lower. But Longbows are well over £10k and even in factoring in a replacement engine I still get a solid boat for reasonable money.

The principle is still the same. The difference in buying price between one with an old and one with a new engine is less than the cost of replacement engine. You have to look at the alternatives and work out what it costs to get a boat how you want it. Not easy as all boats are different when they are 30 years old. None are perfect!

You will find that most engine replacements are done by people who have owned the boat for some time and the choice is either trying to sell a boat with a poor engine or doing the replacement and getting a few more year's use out of it. Buying a boat that needs a new engine is rarely worth it for all the reasons given.

However, if the engine in the Longbow is functioning, you may well get a few years' usage out of it before you need to bite the bullet and replace it. Just remember that at some point you have a £5k bill to pay!

 

[thesaintlyone]

I totally agree and I have not had a chance to test the MD11 fitted although I know its an MD11 cause the manuals are present and recordings in the logbook.
Owner has not been near it in quite a few years
Factoring in a £5k engine the price im paying still leaves me well under £10k overall.
But as you say may well be that with some basic servicing it may run for a while. Just think its smarter for all the reasons previously stated that overhauling is best avoided and knowing up front that a replacement will be needed is the better option.

 

[DanTribe]

I replaced a Yanmar 2GM with a new Beta 20 this year while afloat. The Yanmar developed problems as soon as we launched and I wasted time and money doing injectors, head gasket and valves. Also stupidly replaced lots of stuff that needed doing but didn't affect the running [flexible mounts, fuel filter etc.] Diagnosis from the boatyard engineer was a corroded cylinder head, new one over £1500 plus valves, gaskets etc.
I considered buying a secondhand "refurbished" engine but the only available one was in Dorset and on questioning the seller it appeared the refurbishment was a steam clean and a coat of paint, then see if it starts. The engineer counselled that I could be buying someone else's trouble.
Beta were very helpful with advice and new lump delivered in 2 weeks.
I had to raise the engine beds by 28mm and drill and tap new holes for the feet. The height was critical. Lots of measuring to be sure it would fit, then check measurements several times. I also made wooden templates to be sure.
I made a wooden ramp so that I could slide the old engine out into the cabin to fettle the beds, also clean, paint and re-run fuel lines and exhaust. This is time consuming but not difficult, worth doing while you have good access.
The yard launch towed me to the quay crane and the old engine was craned out and new one in in 10 mins. I just had to then slide the new engine up my timber ramp, [grease helped] and wriggle it into position.
I had been dreading getting the alignment right, but it proved to be relatively easy. Worst part was getting my ancient body into the tight locker space [and getting out again!].
Several days were then wasted trying to connect the new alternator to the existing Adverc. After several calls and emails to Beta and Adverc, I was told it couldn't be done. Apparently Mahle alternators are micro processor controlled and can't talk to transistor based Advercs. Been good to know that earlier.
All in all a much easier operation than I had expected. The most time taken was in head scratching and learning new techniques. The new engine is so quiet and smooooth!

 

[nickd]

HI
I recently reconditioned my Bukh 20 in my Konsort
The engine was overheating
I removed the engine from the boat using the boom, many people on here advised against it - but is was actually quite easy (I did remove the flywheel first to reduce the weight)
Took the engine home stripped it down
Jet washed it
Hot jet washed all of the water channels - gots loads of rubbish out
Had the head skimmed by a local company and the injectors reconditioned (I went and talked to a local Agricultural subcontractor who advised on the best local suppliers)
Changed the ring and the main bearings
Painted it
Took it back and put it back in again using the boom
It really was not very difficult and I had never stripped an engine down before
Total cost < £1000 and I learnt a lot
Good luck

 

[thesaintlyone]

Older grp hulls in good nick can last forever and many are for sale at a low price because of the engine. When the old Yanmar 1GM became totally unreliable we replaced it with a Beta 16 and only wish that we had done it sooner. It wasn't a big job for two handymen although it took a bit longer than we had imagined. Lifting in and out with the boom wasn't difficult.

Totally agree if the boat is at the right price. There has to be a point where replacing a knackered old engine in an otherwise solid boat has to be financially viable. Maybe not in a Centaur that would cost £3k and only sell for £5k but in a Longbow thats costs similar but could sell for over £10k

But then there is the other question one of heart I'm not doing it for profit its not my buisness Im doing it cause like many other successful DIY'ers who took on a project the boat they chose meant something or provided a practical way of obtaining something in a more affordable way.

As i said before one way ill pay out £12k for a longbow only this way I dont have to.get a loan

 

[GrahamM376]

But as you say may well be that with some basic servicing it may run for a while. Just think its smarter for all the reasons previously stated that overhauling is best avoided and knowing up front that a replacement will be needed is the better option.

I've rebuilt a couple of MD11s in past years but parts are expensive and getting harder to locate. If the engine is still a reasonable runner with good gearbox, starter etc. then it's worth selling before it expires. My old 80D sold for €800, helping to offset the cost of the new engine.

 

[langstonelayabout]

I changed from an old Yanmar 1GM10 to a new Yanmar 1GM10. Made the world of difference.

Including the prep work but excluding the hours where the lift out/in went wrong, the paint drying on the engine bed/rails and the complete drain down of the fuel tank it took just over a day from starting to remove all of the engine’s surroundings prior to removal to the first start up. () I did also fit a Vetus raw water strainer and a new Flexofold propeller.

Very pleased with the swap and I’d be happy to do another like for like swap myself (but not an engine design change though).

I’m with ‘Y’ yacht insurance. Having read their small print I did speak and correspond with them with regards to their insurance clause requiring my engine to having been ‘professionally installed’. I justified it with the fact that my boat was originally designed for and fitted with a Yanmar 1GM10. It is now fitted with a new Yanmar 1GM10 installed by an engineer (myself) with experience within Rail, Aviation, Nuclear sectors, etc. They were happy with this and have accepted in writing.

Go for it, but remember that you need a supply of drinks, chocolate and pies in your boat before you start… (and I sold the old one for £850)

 

[doug748]

If it is a boat you really want, is in generally good order, suitably cheap and you intend to keep it a long while, then it is actually ideal to find one with a u/s engine.

That way you get the boat you are looking for with a brand new engine into the bargain. You will also know a lot about the boat when you have finished.

My tip is to check the cooling requirements of the new motor plus the fuel supply and run off. These will often be a size up and the components required may be tricky to source locally.