INEOS AC 2-0
- Thread starter Ningaloo
- Start date
Kukri
Well-known member
Thank you!
bedouin
Well-known member
I think they are just talking about you gets straight through to the final and who has to face AM in the semi.
Some might even see it as an advantage to have those extra competitive races - assuming you win of course.
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
Yes but at the moment B and LR could end up on the same points in which case the winner of the last race would win overall and that would be LR. So as it stands B has to win one or both of the remaining races in the round robin to avoid AM. Given that AM was fast before the capsize and will be motivated when they get back on the water I would prefer LR take them on. At least then B will know what it's up against in the final.
bedouin
Well-known member
If they want to win the AC then they have to beat AM - or LR beat AM and Ineos beat LR
Given the disruption AM are likely to get better as time progresses so it could be an advantage to face them in the semis - in their first race after the repairs - than in the final.
Hard to see that going straight through to the final is much benefit given the situation.
Bobc
Well-known member
Those are the rules I'm afraid.
flaming
Well-known member
Right now, setting aside the massive rebuild job AM have to do, I think the teams are in very different places. Both LR and AM have shown flashes of being seriously quick, but they have been found very wanting on tactics and racing. So both LR and AM will expect to improve their race craft with a bit more racing. And both need to.
For INEOS, having extra races to get "match fit" is not much of a benefit as they have already worked out how to sail the boat, their manoeuvres were really very good and their lines of communication a whole level above the others. It is seemingly becoming completely clear that having fewer grinders and a tactician who can just concentrate on that job is very much the winning move. They have the least to learn by going racing.
INEOS will be thinking then that some extra shed time to carry on the work they have been doing since before Christmas to find extra speed is their best route forward from here. If they turn up to the challenger final with a boat that is level with the other, then they will expect to beat them, the Giles and Ben show is that good. If they turn up with a faster boat it will be a whitewash.
Before their capsize AM will have been looking at the most recent racing and thinking "we don't seem slow, especially when the breeze is up, we are just making awful decisions". So now if they can bolt it all back together they will be fairly confident that they can meet LR on reasonably level terms boat wise. It's their decision making, and their choice to have a 52 year old man grinding and calling tactics that look the weakest link in that team. They are now going to have to race on the 29th, and almost certainly with rebuilding the boat they won't have any time to do any upgrades, so they had better hope that whoever out of LR and INEOS they are facing doesn't take a jump forward, as they are going to need to be at least level on pace to stand a chance in the semis I think.
LR are somewhere in between. Manoeuvres have been good, Boat speed has been ok especially in the light and except in the last race where INEOS were significantly faster downwind - that's how they passed them - and tactics have been also ok. In that sense going racing for them allows them to sharpen the tactical decision making but I feel like they will need to bring more speed to the party to get past INEOS. And actually probably the last thing that LR want is INEOS in the shed playing with new bits that the Merc F1 team have sent them whilst they're racing AM.
Which is probably a long way of saying I think both LR and INEOS will be gunning to win the round robin and spend time in the shed...
Bobc
Well-known member
Good summary Flaming
st599
Well-known member
I suppose one major factor will be how much the water ingress affected all of the systems inside the hull and how complicated the wiring layout is.
If they have to rewire the entire boat due to water ingress and reintegrate all of the systems, they could easily use up a fair chunk of the 240 hours they've got.
If they have to rewire the entire boat due to water ingress and reintegrate all of the systems, they could easily use up a fair chunk of the 240 hours they've got.
Bobc
Well-known member
Terry said that all the electrics are fried, the foil cant system has gone, and there is structural work to do on the boat too. He said that thankfully the hydraulic systems seem ok. He said that they have spares in NZ for pretty much everything they need, and they are going to rip the FCS out of their practice boat. TNZ have offered their builders/laminators etc. to help with the re-build work. They say that they are confident in getting it back on the water in about 10 days.
halcyon
Well-known member
One thing INEOS needs to learn is navigation, we sail to far, LR keep sailing a shorter course, with boats getting more matched that could be a big factor.
Brian
Kukri
Well-known member
With systems that have got wet, you have to assume that water may have got anywhere, and rebuild everything.
flaming
Well-known member
Don't agree with that. The racecourse used over the last weekend was puffy and shifty. The boats sail at 4x wind speed, give or take, so the advantages of sailing in 15 knots instead of 13 knots is an 8 knot speed boost.
Navigation is fine, it's us mere mortals in normal boats who have to reset our parameters of what the fastest way around the race course is!
LONG_KEELER
Well-known member
Hopefully, if they have used the modular format for the electrics, 75% of the work can be done outside of the boat.
Testing , and having confidence in all the systems when afloat , as mentioned, could be lengthy.
I'm sure everyone wants them back. This has been the most watchable AC for years. The boats are nuts,
and you have to wonder if this kind of sailing will survive into the future but it's great fun.
Testing , and having confidence in all the systems when afloat , as mentioned, could be lengthy.
I'm sure everyone wants them back. This has been the most watchable AC for years. The boats are nuts,
and you have to wonder if this kind of sailing will survive into the future but it's great fun.
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Mudisox
Well-known member
I was impressed with the comments from Giles about the nerds from ? Mercedes/ who translated all the information into graphical / map form, for easier understanding and action. Navigation is different for our simple mind,s as is so called gybing downwind with upwind sail settings!
I am having to stay asleep rather than do the middle watch at the computer.
I am having to stay asleep rather than do the middle watch at the computer.
Kukri
Well-known member
I see the boats rather differently to Long Keeler. I think they are quite possibly the future, in a way in which no America’s Cup boats have been since the America herself (she most certainly was the future, as all who saw her win said).
Foiling sailing started with Moths, designed and built by those who sailed them, and as my friend the Australian dinghy designer Michael Storer points out, the idea has “trickled up”...
Uffa Fox would have loved the foiling Moth and its progeny. They are the logical next step on from planing.
I see these seven ton 75 foot boats hitting astounding speeds and I think, “What if a commercial ship could do that?”
Foiling sailing started with Moths, designed and built by those who sailed them, and as my friend the Australian dinghy designer Michael Storer points out, the idea has “trickled up”...
Uffa Fox would have loved the foiling Moth and its progeny. They are the logical next step on from planing.
I see these seven ton 75 foot boats hitting astounding speeds and I think, “What if a commercial ship could do that?”
Laser310
Well-known member
INEOS is sailing fatter angles - so longer distance, but at higher boatspeed.
it could be related to differences in the design of the boat or the sails
their VMG wasn't that much different than LR
Kukri
Well-known member
In the opening race against AM on the 15th they were pointing higher. Or so the commentator told us. I think the series has been beset by locally variable winds and that might account for both observations.
But that might be wrong also. It seems to me that these boats are super sensitive to fairly small changes in the wind.
Knig
Member
American magic not racing this weekend, new schedule on Americas cup web site.
Laser310
Well-known member
they were higher than AM at times in that race
the wind was lighter too
there's a lot we don't know.., but i think at this point they probably have a good idea of what their up and down target angles/target boat speeds are across the TWS range, and are doing their best to sail to the targets - except when they deliberately choose a high or low mode for some reason.
this fairly basic stuff, and i doubt they are not on it
anyway, my main point is that you can not just look at distance sailed and say they are doing something wrong - the starting assumption should be that they are sailing their boat at the optimal angles around the course.., and that shortening the distance will mean sailing at sub-optimal angles, which will be slower around the course. we should not be surprised that different boats have different optimal angles in the same windspeed - this is a common occurrence.