Ignoring COVID-19 regulations

[chriss999]

IMHO people are much less socially distanced than they were & I can’t see how we’d avoid a rise in cases. So I wonder if the government is planning to follow the Swedish model next time.
Many fatalities were in care homes which were left to cope as best they could, but in a second wave they might be better prepared.
So basically carry on and hope for the best?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Am I the only one expecting a new peak and reimposed restrictions in the next month? Politicians can't admit it publicly, but the lockdown was only ever about reducing the load on the NHS.

I gather that infectious disease outbreaks sometimes just fizzled out for reasons which aren't clear. There are suggestions that this is happening in Italy, with cases falling far faster than the models predict. Doubtless we shall find out in due course. Meanwhile we Scots watch the Inglis with speculative interest.

 

[JumbleDuck]

IMHO people are much less socially distanced than they were & I can’t see how we’d avoid a rise in cases. So I wonder if the government is planning to follow the Swedish model next time.

It seems that apart from care homes, the Swedish model has actually worked very well, and the UK model's result for care homes has been just as bad.

 

[pvb]

IMHO people are much less socially distanced than they were & I can’t see how we’d avoid a rise in cases. So I wonder if the government is planning to follow the Swedish model next time.
Many fatalities were in care homes which were left to cope as best they could, but in a second wave they might be better prepared.
So basically carry on and hope for the best?

No, the NHS discharged thousands of elderly patients from hospitals into care homes, in order to have the capacity to cope with Covid-19 cases. Unfortunately, the NHS wasn't bright enough to test the patients they discharged for Covid-19 before discharging them, so they just sent a load of infected elderly people into care homes, where the virus spread uncontrollably. Meanwhile, the many thousands of beds in the Nightingale hospitals remained empty. When the public inquiry into this fiasco eventually reports (if it isn't redacted), the NHS will have a lot to answer for.

 

[jordanbasset]

Even the man behind the Sweden plan says they made mistakes
Coronavirus: Man behind Sweden's controversial strategy admits mistakes
Sweden should have done more to combat coronavirus to prevent it having a much higher national death rate than neighbouring countries, the man behind the country's pandemic strategy has said.
The Swedish government's decision not to impose lockdown measures as strictly as elsewhere in Europe is facing growing criticism, after nearly 4,500 people died in the country's outbreak of the disease...
But, with 443 deaths per million people, it has the eighth highest number of coronavirus-related deaths per capita in the world, and had the highest COVID-19 mortality rate in Europe for parts of May, according to research group Ourworldindata.org. ...
The country relied on voluntary measures, social distancing and common-sense hygiene advice to stem the outbreak of coronavirus.
Anders Tegnell, the chief epidemiologist at Sweden's Public Health agency, said that in hindsight the country should have done more


It has between 4 and ten times the death rate of it's Nordic neighbours, Denmark, Norway and Finland
For a country with a relatively low population density compared to many countries in europe and a first class health system it's death rate is horrendous
Coupled with the fact it's economic prospects are not much better than it's neighbours and as thye are opening up they are also closing their borers to Sweden.

 

[Old Harry]

No, the NHS discharged thousands of elderly patients from hospitals into care homes, in order to have the capacity to cope with Covid-19 cases. Unfortunately, the NHS wasn't bright enough to test the patients they discharged for Covid-19 before discharging them, so they just sent a load of infected elderly people into care homes, where the virus spread uncontrollably. Meanwhile, the many thousands of beds in the Nightingale hospitals remained empty. When the public inquiry into this fiasco eventually reports (if it isn't redacted), the NHS will have a lot to answer for.

20% of infections were NHS induced

 

[alahol2]

20% of infections were NHS induced

Source...?

 

[pvb]

20% of infections were NHS induced

Are you suggesting 20% is good, or bad?

 

[newtothis]

No, the NHS discharged thousands of elderly patients from hospitals into care homes, in order to have the capacity to cope with Covid-19 cases. Unfortunately, the NHS wasn't bright enough to test the patients they discharged for Covid-19 before discharging them, so they just sent a load of infected elderly people into care homes, where the virus spread uncontrollably. Meanwhile, the many thousands of beds in the Nightingale hospitals remained empty. When the public inquiry into this fiasco eventually reports (if it isn't redacted), the NHS will have a lot to answer for.

NHS discharged patients on the instruction of the Dept of Health, so it is they who will need to answer the questions.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It has between 4 and ten times the death rate of it's Nordic neighbours, Denmark, Norway and Finland
For a country with a relatively low population density compared to many countries in europe and a first class health system it's death rate is horrendous

It's a very mixed picture. As their chief epidemiologist says, the main area of mistakes in restrospect were in failing to protect people in care homes enough. deaths in the rest of the population probably aren't any worse as a proportion of those infect than elsewhere, so they are well on the way to achieving the general goal of slowing down the disease enough that the health system can cope but not expecting to stop it. Other Nordic sountries have lower death rates so far, but it seems quite possible that in teh end they'll lose a similar proportion of the population over a much longer and more economically damaging time. We shall see. The only certain things is that n o country will have got it perfectly right with hindsight.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Source...?

Up to 20% of hospital patients with Covid-19 caught it at hospital, inter alia.

 

[Mudisox]

Up to 20% of hospital patients with Covid-19 caught it at hospital, inter alia.

Oh the Guardian said it....... Must be true.

 

[Zing]

Laws and rules are blunt instruments. They are also designed to cater for the lowest common denominator. This rule is typical of all that. Sensible people don’t need many laws. It’s a very frustrating being a sensible and competent person.

Yesterday I did a journey, where I was compelled to drive at 40mph for 5 miles on a road otherwise good for at least 60mph because there were two tight bends on it that had caused a few dummies to drive off the road. I had to obey double white lines placed to restrict vehicles with the overtaking ability of a 1970s family saloon and I had to drive on a motorway at speeds that correspond to the safe reaction times of geriatric drivers. Frustrating.

 

[jordanbasset]

NHS discharged patients on the instruction of the Dept of Health, so it is they who will need to answer the questions.

Agree, it came straight from the top. Not only were their insufficient tests available due the the Government's woeful lack of preparation and organisation, even if tests were available and they tested positive, Hancock said patients would still be discharged into care homes
Discharging coronavirus patients into care homes is 'madness', Government told
Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, said hospital patients who tested positive for Covid-19 would continue to be discharged into care homes despite growing evidence that the policy is fuelling outbreaks and deaths.

 

[Stemar]

"The NHS is to blame". Well, that depends on where the NHS stops and the government starts. If Hancock did send CV +ve patients back to care homes, that was a particularly stupid move when it was pretty well known that the elderly were vulnerable. Where does stupid stop and negligence begin, when the outcome was so predictable? I can forgive honest mistakes in a new and fast-changing situation, but that one is made for a "We can't afford the pensions and care costs for all these old farts, so let's get rid of them" conspiracy theory. (Viago will be along in a moment with incontrovertible evidence that it's true)

One thing I think the NHS can, and should be praised for, was getting the Nightingale hospitals set up so quickly. OK, they haven't been needed - yet, but how many here would have believed it could be done? It's one thing in China, where, "We want your land, off you go" works, but in Broken Britain, where we allegedly can't organise a piss up in a brewery without it going 10 years and £10 billion over budget? Well done to all concerned. Doubtless there will be those who will, with 20/20 hindsight, whinge about the waste of money but, at the time there was every reason to believe it would be needed.

 

[doug748]

Even the man behind the Sweden plan says they made mistakes
........
Coupled with the fact it's economic prospects are not much better than it's neighbours and as thye are opening up they are also closing their borers to Sweden.

It's a very mixed picture. As their chief epidemiologist says, the main area of mistakes in restrospect were in failing to protect people in care homes enough. deaths in the rest of the population probably aren't any worse as a proportion of those infect than elsewhere, so they are well on the way to achieving the general goal of slowing down the disease enough that the health system can cope but not expecting to stop it. Other Nordic sountries have lower death rates so far, but it seems quite possible that in teh end they'll lose a similar proportion of the population over a much longer and more economically damaging time. We shall see. The only certain things is that n o country will have got it perfectly right with hindsight.

Quite. Time will tell.

As for the economy, here is another spin: few countries in Europe have a better macro economic outlook than Sweden, her first quarter figures were well above expectations and the forecasts, though poor, are far better than many central countries excluding Germany.

.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Agree, it came straight from the top. Not only were their insufficient tests available due the the Government's woeful lack of preparation and organisation, even if tests were available and they tested positive, Hancock said patients would still be discharged into care homes
Discharging coronavirus patients into care homes is 'madness', Government told
Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, said hospital patients who tested positive for Covid-19 would continue to be discharged into care homes despite growing evidence that the policy is fuelling outbreaks and deaths.

Bozo claimed yesterday in parliament “We brought in the lockdown in care homes ahead of the general lockdown.” Seems that no care homes were made aware of this move back in March. Just another effort by this government to re write history. And Covid patients from hospitals continued to be sent to the care homes.
There are mistakes and then there are lies.. In this case, both.

 

[Catalina36]

Latest UK Covid figures, 280k cases, 39k deaths. Let's say the cases are understated by a factor of 10 because loads of people get such mild symptoms they don't know they've had it so don't have a test. That assumption would give 2.8m cases producing 39k deaths. That says that only 1 in 24 of the population have so far got it and only 1 in 72 of those die from it.

On the strength of a 1 in 1720 chance of catching it and dying from it, the public are now wearing masks in the open air, dancing around everyone they meet and queuing in hot sun for an hour to get into a shop. Meanwhile the economy has been trashed, huge numbers have lost jobs, livelihoods or a great deal of income and children have lost a lot of schooling and their exam results.

Eventually sanity will return but we'll spend years getting back to where we were.

 

[pvb]

One thing I think the NHS can, and should be praised for, was getting the Nightingale hospitals set up so quickly. OK, they haven't been needed - yet, but how many here would have believed it could be done?

I thought the armed forces were instrumental in getting those sorted.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I thought the armed forces were instrumental in getting those sorted.

Possibly because the MoD has a very active media operations team.