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Hydrogen powered ferry due in 2027.

Concerto

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16 Jul 2014
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Sail on the Medway, Kent from Chatham Maritime Mar
Seeing the thread on the shiiping carbon footprint reminded me of the news item I saw on the proposed new DFDS ferry. It will be electrically powered from energy generated from using hydrogen. The only emissions will be water and saving an estimated 64,000 tons of carbon dioxide. Will this be the future for new ships>
Partnership aims to develop hydrogen ferry for Oslo-Copenhagen
 

crewman

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I think there are proposals for a hydrogen powered (or part powered) ferry in Orkney. Essentially they are looking for uses of windpower. Regard the hydrogen as a means to store and transport energy, rather than a s a primary fuel. Extracting oil and refining it to petrol and diesel uses a far bit of energy so is some way off 100% efficient.
There is a lot of work going on with hydrogen at present, partly driven by political pressures and partly by the energy industries realising that oil and gas will be phased out in the not too distant future.
 

lustyd

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Me, Reading. Boat, Portsmouth
I must say I'm more interested in what a ferry running on renewables will look like. Current designs for lots of things are based around fuel and engines, as were sail and steam before them. Could we see a move to more smaller ferries, for instance, to make the most of electric motors. Or perhaps the huge torque of electric will enable larger designs to be more efficient.
Obviously gen 1 will be a diesel ferry with a hydrogen power unit, just as early steam ships were sail driven with a bolt on.
 

RIBW

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..... Regard the hydrogen as a means to store and transport energy, rather than a s a primary fuel.....
Exactly!
There are now hydrogen powered trains and it is the only serious option for lorries.
The third lecture in the current Royal Institution Christmas lectures will help to convert non-believers. (Probably on Catch-up or whatever it is called?)
I'm waiting for a hydrogen car. There is no way an battery-electric car meets my needs - they are just an virtue signalling eco let out for those deep thinking engineers (aka journalists and lawyers) in government .
Just my opinion
Bob
 

Laser_310

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Exactly!
There are now hydrogen powered trains and it is the only serious option for lorries.
The third lecture in the current Royal Institution Christmas lectures will help to convert non-believers. (Probably on Catch-up or whatever it is called?)
I'm waiting for a hydrogen car. There is no way an battery-electric car meets my needs - they are just an virtue signalling eco let out for those deep thinking engineers (aka journalists and lawyers) in government .
Just my opinion
Bob
The problem is that making hydrogen is an extremely inefficient use of carbon-free electricity.

when there is excess power, it _might_ be okay to make hydrogen if no more efficient means of storage can be found.

but from a carbon reduction perspective, we are better off converting _all_ present uses of electricity to carbon free electricity.., before using any to make hydrogen.
 

Fr J Hackett

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26 Dec 2001
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Grenoble
Exactly!
There are now hydrogen powered trains and it is the only serious option for lorries.
The third lecture in the current Royal Institution Christmas lectures will help to convert non-believers. (Probably on Catch-up or whatever it is called?)
I'm waiting for a hydrogen car. There is no way an battery-electric car meets my needs - they are just an virtue signalling eco let out for those deep thinking engineers (aka journalists and lawyers) in government .
Just my opinion
Bob
Plenty of Hydrogen powered cars Toyota, Honda to name two manufacturers, even hydrogen powered taxis in Paris.
 

Laser_310

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even when stored at very high pressure, hydrogen has very low energy per unit volume compared with conventional fuels - say diesel.

A hydrogen powered automobile will not have anything like the range of a diesel automobile, unless the entire vehicle is a high pressure hydrogen tank.

low-range vehicles are fine in some cases, especially if you can easily refill.., but i'd rather have long range without refilling.

a bigger issue perhaps is that handling hydrogen at very high pressure is not simple, and accidents will happen.

imagine the dumbest people you know.., filling their cars with high pressure hydrogen, while your loved ones are nearby...
 

RIBW

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...imagine the dumbest people you know.., filling their cars with high pressure hydrogen, while your loved ones are nearby...
I have the same concerns about petrol!!!
Seriously, I acknowledge the problems with hydrogen but that is why there are still a few engineers around - to solve the problems. It is very early days.
However, batteries are just band-aids (sorry about the USism). After 100+ years they have achieved only mediocrity and use a lot of rare chemical elements. Hydrogen is abundant.
EVs might be fine in cities but after that, no thanks.
As I said earlier, just my opinion.
Bob
 

TernVI

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8 Jul 2020
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3,080
Hydrogen cars are crap.
Basically a very expensive solution, due to the capital cost of the fuel cell compared to batteries.

Buses, taxis, trucks, the economics are different, because the vehicles can be used many more hours in a day.

As for the argument that batteries are mediocre after a century of development, maybe you should look at how long ago the first fuel cells were invented....
and fuel cells are notable for using expensive metals.
 

crewman

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Edinburgh
I have been involved in drafting the standard for hydrogen refuelling systems for cars. There is a lot of clever technology inside the dispenser to ensure that the hydrogen will only be transferred once the connection has been proven. System integrity is monitored continuously. With pressures up to 700 bar this is essential. Germany is way ahead of us in retail hydrogen for transport and so far few problems. Existing hydrogen cars seem to have a reasonable range and refuelling is much quicker than battery recharging. No idea if they have better towing capacity than battery vehicles which I think tend to be limited by battery temperafures.
 

boomerangben

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24 Jul 2003
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Isle of Lewis
I think we will see a move away from a one type solution like we have now (internal combustion engine) and see some quite diverse solutions to the sustainable transport issues. Clearly there is a huge market for battery cars and they will get better, but I am sure there will be other ideas for long distance and high kWh (meant in the broadest sense) transport applications. There will be hydrogen, there will be batteries, there might be induction charging on the go, wind powered ships (at least in part), and goodness only knows what new stuff
 
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