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Hot Liquid: the response

Koeketiene

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YBW story

From the YBW article

Given the press coverage and some very negative comments on social media and in forums etc that surround this rescue, we feel it is important to highlight that all six crew were paying individuals gaining further yachting experience and all were existing Hot Liquid sea school students and all had an RYA qualification; there were no novices on board.
Yet in the original thread one of the crew said that even though he had a Day Skipper ticket, he felt he was not experienced enough to helm.

Someone should explain to Mr Manning that RYA tickets do not necessarily bestow experience (or indeed, common sense).
 

Judders

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Someone should explain to Mr Manning that RYA tickets do not necessarily bestow experience (or indeed, common sense).
Especially when awarded by a sea school which does not know it's business.
 

fireball

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YBW story

From the YBW article



Yet in the original thread one of the crew said that even though he had a Day Skipper ticket, he felt he was not experienced enough to helm.

Someone should explain to Mr Manning that RYA tickets do not necessarily bestow experience (or indeed, common sense).
As I said in the other thread - Dayskipper isn't a QUALIFICATION it is a Certificate of Competence - nitpicking it maybe - but gaining that cert of competence is down to the individual instructor.

Anyway - good on the DS who felt he didn't have the experience to helm - it could've been so easy to give in and take the helm anyway.
 

sailorman

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The RNLI passed dedicated bridal lines to secure a third tow; unfortunately this tow failed by pulling a bow cleat from the yacht.

Well fancy that happening :rolleyes:


[An MAIB report subsequently found some of the crew were inexperienced and that the skipper had not fully assessed the potential risk of collision. ]
 

photodog

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As I said in the other thread - Dayskipper isn't a QUALIFICATION it is a Certificate of Competence - nitpicking it maybe - but gaining that cert of competence is down to the individual instructor.
.
I dont think thats knitpicking... I think it illustrates their poor understanding of the risks.

They believe that paying students are a suitable substitute for qualified and experienced employees...

The boat was running 6 students to 1 instructor in extreme conditions.
 

Sans Bateau

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I believe I'm correct in thinking that DS is a continual assessment certificate that is awarded by the instructor/school, not an independent examiner. So if the guy had gained his DS with that school, its a case of so what?
 

eagleswing

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duh...again..

as i previously posted on the original thread:
6 paying newbees on such a trip confounds me.
duh ??
this threads remind me (1)not to buy a bavaria or (2)charter with hot liquid....
per HL's response to MAIB:
“Shortly after 04:00 Dover Coastguard announced an updated weather forecast that a Force 11 was imminent so an immediate decision was made by the skipper to head towards Dover for shelter. Soon after the wind started reaching Force 8 and the yacht was becoming more difficult to control so the decision was made to drop the headsail and motor towards Dover which at this point was less than 2 hours away.

“At 05:00 – 05:30, the skipper sent a Pan Pan message to Dover Coastguard as a safety precaution so that they were aware of his location and intentions. Dover Coastguard called the RNLI Lifeboat to escort the yacht into Dover.

“Shortly after the Lifeboat met Liquid Vortex she was hit by a large wave from astern. This caused the helmsman to fall against the wheel and subsequently bend the wheel which prevented further steering. The helmsman went below suffering an injured jaw and damaged ribs. ..'
--DUH ? NO EMERGENCY STEER CAPABILITY ON BAVARIAS??NO PROPER WRENCH TO TAKE OFF KEY/NUT HOLDING BENT WHEEL ON ?NO TOOLS TO ATTACH EMERGENCY TILLER??WHERE'S THE SKIPPER IN ALL THIS ?
“....Due to the lack of steering capability the Lifeboat secured a tow to Liquid Vortex with the intention of towing to Dover. ."
“...The skipper along with a lifeboat crewman managed to straighten the wheel which allowed the skipper to helm and motor the yacht under her own power...""
--can't 3 seasick crew have helped a skipper to straighten this wheel , even between vomits, and before calling in the tow??? this skipper doesnt seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer..

..'Unfortunately, due to the yacht slewing with the given sea state and lack of helming capabilities, the tow line chaffed and snapped. A second tow line was rigged with the same outcome. The RNLI passed dedicated bridal lines to secure a third tow; unfortunately this tow failed by pulling a bow cleat from the yacht...'
-- DUH? BOW CLEATS NOT PROPERLY DESIGNED AND/or BACKED TO TAKE MAXIMUM TOWLOAD WITHOUT PULLING CLEAT THRU THE DECK ??

final diagnosis: perhaps it is fortunate that this bavaria 'first 40.7 never made it to the boat show... but HL is still advert'ing its capacity to help you with the coastal skipper ticket?? i think i'll pass.....
 

photodog

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as i previously posted on the original thread:
6 paying newbees on such a trip confounds me.
duh ??
this threads remind me (1)not to buy a bavaria or (2)charter with hot liquid....
per HL's response to MAIB:
“Shortly after 04:00 Dover Coastguard announced an updated weather forecast that a Force 11 was imminent so an immediate decision was made by the skipper to head towards Dover for shelter. Soon after the wind started reaching Force 8 and the yacht was becoming more difficult to control so the decision was made to drop the headsail and motor towards Dover which at this point was less than 2 hours away.

“At 05:00 – 05:30, the skipper sent a Pan Pan message to Dover Coastguard as a safety precaution so that they were aware of his location and intentions. Dover Coastguard called the RNLI Lifeboat to escort the yacht into Dover.

“Shortly after the Lifeboat met Liquid Vortex she was hit by a large wave from astern. This caused the helmsman to fall against the wheel and subsequently bend the wheel which prevented further steering. The helmsman went below suffering an injured jaw and damaged ribs. ..'
--DUH ? NO EMERGENCY STEER CAPABILITY ON BAVARIAS??NO PROPER WRENCH TO TAKE OFF KEY/NUT HOLDING BENT WHEEL ON ?NO TOOLS TO ATTACH EMERGENCY TILLER??WHERE'S THE SKIPPER IN ALL THIS ?
“....Due to the lack of steering capability the Lifeboat secured a tow to Liquid Vortex with the intention of towing to Dover. ."
“...The skipper along with a lifeboat crewman managed to straighten the wheel which allowed the skipper to helm and motor the yacht under her own power...""
--can't 3 seasick crew have helped a skipper to straighten this wheel , even between vomits, and before calling in the tow??? this skipper doesnt seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer..

..'Unfortunately, due to the yacht slewing with the given sea state and lack of helming capabilities, the tow line chaffed and snapped. A second tow line was rigged with the same outcome. The RNLI passed dedicated bridal lines to secure a third tow; unfortunately this tow failed by pulling a bow cleat from the yacht...'
-- DUH? BOW CLEATS NOT PROPERLY DESIGNED AND/or BACKED TO TAKE MAXIMUM TOWLOAD WITHOUT PULLING CLEAT THRU THE DECK ??

final diagnosis: perhaps it is fortunate that this bavaria 'first 40.7 never made it to the boat show... but HL is still advert'ing its capacity to help you with the coastal skipper ticket?? i think i'll pass.....

Sorry... the Boat WAS NOT A BAVARIA!

Maybe you should go back and read the reports again?
 

Plevier

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Minor problem with your rather hysterical shouty message - it ain't a Bavaria :)

Oops beaten to it while logging in!!
 

BlowingOldBoots

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Its a disgrace letting a day skipper take out complete beginners in a hurricane. Its a wonder she didn't spring a plank and sink. ;)

Its getting ridiculous now.
 

jordanbasset

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Sorry... the Boat WAS NOT A BAVARIA!

Maybe you should go back and read the reports again?
Why let facts get in the way of prejudices

"final diagnosis: perhaps it is fortunate that this bavaria 'first 40.7 never made it to the boat show..."

Quite agree I think the Bavaria Hallberg Rassy would have been better
 
Last edited:

NorthUp

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credible reporting?

From YBW:
"The sail-training yacht rescued by lifeboats and escorted into Dover... "

If YBW cannot even get the first line of the yarn right without a mistake, I do not have much faith in the rest of the story.
Dungeness and Dover RNLI escorted/ towed them into Ramsgate.
 

marina95

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If YBW cannot even get the first line of the yarn right without a mistake, I do not have much faith in the rest of the story.
Dungeness and Dover RNLI escorted/ towed them into Ramsgate.
I agree. It's not a great piece of reporting, in fact I notice that they are editing it as they go along and have corrected the above and removed the strangely worded bracketed paragraph about the statement from Manning not actually being from the MAIB report.
 

prv

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removed the strangely worded bracketed paragraph about the statement from Manning not actually being from the MAIB report.
Pity - when I read it my first thought was "what MAIB report?" They take months to come out, so for a moment I thought Mr Hot Liquid was talking about a report from one of his previous accidents. The interjection from YBW that "he may have just said 'MAIB Report', but he's talking *******s" was helpful.

Pete
 

xyachtdave

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this threads remind me (1)not to buy a bavaria .....

final diagnosis: perhaps it is fortunate that this bavaria 'first 40.7 never made it to the boat show... but HL is still advert'ing its capacity to help you with the coastal skipper ticket?? i think i'll pass.....

Somebody tell him.....
 

Cardo

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Whilst I gather the weather was pretty nasty during this incident, I am somewhat concerned that someone holding a "Day Skipper" ticket (or whatever you wish to call it) felt unable to helm the boat.

This is someone that is "technically" qualified to charter and skipper boats in this and other countries (via an obtainable ICC). Methinks the standards may need to be raised somewhat?
 

sailorman

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Whilst I gather the weather was pretty nasty during this incident, I am somewhat concerned that someone holding a "Day Skipper" ticket (or whatever you wish to call it) felt unable to helm the boat.

This is someone that is "technically" qualified to charter and skipper boats in this and other countries (via an obtainable ICC). Methinks the standards may need to be raised somewhat?
they have a cheap easily got ticket but no experience simples
 
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