Having spent 91 days in France in 2021, what happens next?

[lustyd]

Yes I thought that too but apparently its not like that according to Lustyd.

You certainly don't have to go home to apply for a visa, it's just paperwork. Often you'd go to the embassy of the country you want to visit. As I said this isn't new stuff, anyone who's ever travelled outside the EU has been through the process, as has everyone from outside who visited the EU! As others have said, residency and right to remain and/or work have different paperwork but you can either Google or ask the embassy for details once you determine where you're going and for how long, and whether you plan to earn money while there.

 

[syvictoria]

You certainly don't have to go home to apply for a visa, it's just paperwork. Often you'd go to the embassy of the country you want to visit. As I said this isn't new stuff, anyone who's ever travelled outside the EU has been through the process, as has everyone from outside who visited the EU! As others have said, residency and right to remain and/or work have different paperwork but you can either Google or ask the embassy for details once you determine where you're going and for how long, and whether you plan to earn money while there.

I truly hope that it turns out to be as easy as you suggest. I'm surprised however that such revaluations haven't already become common knowledge through the numerous other threads re: 90/180.

 

[Forty_Two]

Maybe no worry for a while anyway

EU Countries May Ban Brits From Entering Their Territory From January 1 Due to COVID-19 - SchengenVisaInfo.com

 

[GHA]

You certainly don't have to go home to apply for a visa, it's just paperwork. Often you'd go to the embassy of the country you want to visit. As I said this isn't new stuff, anyone who's ever travelled outside the EU has been through the process, as has everyone from outside who visited the EU! As others have said, residency and right to remain and/or work have different paperwork but you can either Google or ask the embassy for details once you determine where you're going and for how long, and whether you plan to earn money while there.

If it's so easy how come non EU boats/crew have such a hard time?

Schengen Visas and VAT: Reports on Cruisers' Understanding | Noonsite

In some countries, the 90 days can be extended, but we have never found clear information on which ones, where and how. In Portugal, we did manage to get a visa for an additional 30 days, but after having gone through the lengthy and costly process we’re told it was only valid for Portugal, which completely defeated the purpose since we were going to Spain.

In some cases extended visas can be obtained prior to arriving in a Schengen country, in almost all cases the process is difficult and expensive and still requires follow-up visits to immigration or police in the Schengen country.

The rules and the reality, in many cases, do not mirror each other. We met many, many cruisers who overstayed the 90 day period and were not bothered by officials, we know of some that were fined.

It is not always easy to complete proper clearing-in procedures, and in some cases it is impossible. We know of situations where Schengen immigration officials have refused to stamp passports. Likewise, with clearing out, it is not always possible to find the right officials or they might not be willing or interested in completing the documentation.

 

[lustyd]

Some people not understanding is not the same as a system being difficult. The overriding issue seems to be that people think the rules are for Schengen/Europe and they aren't, just the initial visitor pass. Beyond that you need to deal direct with a country and find out their rules and follow them. These will vary. The original question from the OP was about France, and a link has been provided above for info on France and extended visas.

 

[syvictoria]

Maybe no worry for a while anyway

EU Countries May Ban Brits From Entering Their Territory From January 1 Due to COVID-19 - SchengenVisaInfo.com

Will visiting to check/move your boat be classed as essential travel????

 

[Forty_Two]

Will visiting to check/move your boat be classed as essential travel????

Haha, i think that list of countries is a go/nogo without exceptions. Anyway with no EHIC & most travel insurance invalid due to our government advisories we won't be allowed in anywhere EU without medical cover.

 

[syvictoria]

Okay, so I've just worked further through the link to the French visa information mentioned previously and the following information is eventually provided in the visa wizard, as an example of what might be required (note: I've selected Australian as my nationality, as UK isn't available in the list yet!):

Supporting documents required
The supporting documents to be provided are as follows:

• Pre-requisites
  • Application form dated and signed, which must be printed and returned in original when filing the application. No scanning.
  • A travel document, issued less than 10 years ago, containing at least two blank pages, with a period of validity at least 3 months longer than the date on which you intend to leave the Schengen Area or, in the case of a long stay, at least three months longer than the expiry date of the visa requested.
  • France-Visas receipt which must be printed and returned in original when filing the application. No scanning.
  • ID photograph.
  • If you are not a national of your country of residence: proof that you are legally resident in that country (e.g. residence permit).
• Purpose of travel/stay
  • Promise not to exercise any professional activity in France.
  • Proof of your socio-economic situation.
• Travel health insurance
  • Health insurance for the full duration of the stay. The insurance must cover the visa’s entire validity period (1 year at the most).
• Accommodation
  • Proof of residency of the host in France: rental agreement or property tirle or, if applicable, statement signed by the host confirming the establishment in France. Any particuliar situation will require an explaination letter.
• Funds
  • Last 3 months worth of bank statements (UK current account) showing your full name and address, and proving that you have enough funds for the whole duration of the trip, or traveller's cheques presenting the same guarantees. If you are financially sponsored by your spouse/partner : marriage certificate and bank statements of your spouse/partner.

Applicable price
The amount to be paid is : 99 euros (€), or about 90 POUND STERLING.
This amount is for informational purposes only and must be paid in local currency. Certain individual cases may give rise to different prices, in accordance with applicable regulations.
The amount indicated in local currency is subject to exchange rate fluctuations and is susceptible to change

Two things immediately jump out at me:
1. I was unable to select that I was making the application in France. That seems contrary to what has been suggested further up the thread?
2. "Proof of residency of the host in France: rental agreement or property tirle or, if applicable, statement signed by the host confirming the establishment in France. Any particuliar situation will require an explaination letter." Will a letter stating that you're staying in your own boat suffice, I wonder?

 

[syvictoria]

Haha, i think that list of countries is a go/nogo without exceptions. Anyway with no EHIC & most travel insurance invalid due to our government advisories we won't be allowed in anywhere EU without medical cover.

I'm not sure if that's strictly true. UK nationals will be able to apply for a visa waiver, and I believe that there's no insurance requirement for that. That doesn't mean that travelling without insurance is necessarily a good idea, nor perhaps is travelling against Foreign Office advice, but it does suggest that you shouldn't be asked to provide proof of insurance at the Schengen border. (I think.)

 

[lustyd]

If you're struggling call the embassy and ask them

 

[Forty_Two]

Okay, so I've just worked further through the link to the French visa information mentioned previously and the following information is eventually provided in the visa wizard, as an example of what might be required (note: I've selected Australian as my nationality, as UK isn't available in the list yet!):



Two things immediately jump out at me:
1. I was unable to select that I was making the application in France. That seems contrary to what has been suggested further up the thread?
2. "Proof of residency of the host in France: rental agreement or property tirle or, if applicable, statement signed by the host confirming the establishment in France. Any particuliar situation will require an explaination letter." Will a letter stating that you're staying in your own boat suffice, I wonder?

I'm sure the boat will be fine with proof of ownership & either berth rental or ownership proof.

Yes thats right, for us Brits we have to apply online then visit their agent, for me that would be in London, for the processing of the application, leave your passport & wait for the Embassy, again in London for me, to call you in to collect passport with it's shiny new visa assuming its approved. Can't remember if it needs a criminal record check or not.

 

[syvictoria]

If you're struggling call the embassy and ask them

Sorry, not sure who that's too?

 

[Forty_Two]

I'm not sure if that's strictly true. UK nationals will be able to apply for a visa waiver, and I believe that there's no insurance requirement for that. That doesn't mean that travelling without insurance is necessarily a good idea, nor perhaps is travelling against Foreign Office advice, but it does suggest that you shouldn't be asked to provide proof of insurance at the Schengen border. (I think.)

You may be right if it's just the Schengen 90/180. I was thinking more for the longer visa for a single country.

 

[syvictoria]

You may be right if it's just the Schengen 90/180. I was thinking more for the longer visa for a single country.

Yes, sorry. I was referring only to the initial 90/180.

Based on all of the info above then, an extra 1-90 days in France (so as to avoid accidentally becoming a resident for tax) would require health insurance for the full duration of the stay, a fee of ~£90. form filling and a trip to London (or other embassy). Not impossible, but certainly not just 'filing a bit of paperwork in France' very sadly.

 

[lustyd]

The French Embassy in London are just local agents for the Frech authorities. Just like the British Embassy in Paris are agents of the Home Office, which people can visit instead if they are already in the UK.

 

[syvictoria]

The French Embassy in London are just local agents for the Frech authorities. Just like the British Embassy in Paris are agents of the Home Office, which people can visit instead if they are already in the UK.

I won't disagree with you, as you seem sure of your facts, but the visa wizard I just did online didn't seem to allow this. I could select Finland (next to France in the drop down!), UK, etc., but not France... But perhaps I'm just being thick (highly likely based on previous experience!!!).

(Editing to clarify that I'm talking about the ability to submit a visa application for France in France, not the purpose of an embassy!)

 

[lustyd]

Could be due to the fact that you wouldn’t be applying online if you were there. Pretty sure it’s the same with the Home Office

 

[Ningaloo]

Sadly there are many people who deny the existence of Schengen visa rules. There is no third country able to get casual "tourist" visa for more than 90/180 days. These are not "new" rules, we voted to leave the EU and thus accepted becoming a third country and this is a consequence.
Longer term visas "may" be available on a country by country basis, usually where a reciprocal arrangement exists (e.g. I can get 180 day visa in France based on my Australian passport).
In many cases longer term visas are only available for work, study or other reasons. They are not available for casual visits. It is also common to have to arrange these visas before arrival on the country they apply to which means that you cannot apply once you are in that country. [When I wanted to change employment in the USA I had to return to UK to get a new visa sponsored by my new employer. I could not get this in USA.]
There are are also further restrictions in that many of these visas (e.g. the French visa referred to previously) can only be activated once you have used your 90 day Schengen visa allotment. This might cause problems for someone who drives to their holiday home in Spain as they will have used their Schengen entitlement and thus not be able to drive through France to get home (assuming UK is home).
In short we must now regard EU as somewhere difficult to travel to for anything other than short breaks. Unfortunately short breaks by boat are likely to be inconvenient as we will need to arrive and depart from one of the few ports of entry and complete formalities before moving on to smaller ports. No more weekends to St Vaast.
From 2022 all travel within EU will be monitored electronically across the Schengen zone so you will be caught if you overstay, potentially being denied further visits.

 

[st599]

We are being told that we can, next ear onwards, only spend 90 days in the EU in our boat (or second home??).

My question, that I haven't seen answered elsewhere, is: Having failed to leave the EU inside the 90 days allowed, for technical, or safety reasons, for example, or indeed through incompetence, what happens then?

Is it shown yet, what the penalties are?

If you don't have a type D visa, you become an illegal immigrant and can be penalised. The penalty is up to the state. But a 2 year ban on re-entry seems common.

The question is, does the country I want to go to offer a type D visa. France seems to for tourism, but the visa has to be issued prior to travel and has to be validated, so you need to visit the immigration police in France. It can last for up to 1 year, but after 183 days you become resident for tax purposes.

 

[Poignard]

If you don't have a type D visa, you become an illegal immigrant and can be penalised. The penalty is up to the state. But a 2 year ban on re-entry seems common.

The question is, does the country I want to go to offer a type D visa. France seems to for tourism, but the visa has to be issued prior to travel and has to be validated, so you need to visit the immigration police in France. It can last for up to 1 year, but after 183 days you become resident for tax purposes.

If you become resident for tax puposes might you be able to claim ordinary resident status on the grounds that if you are being taxed as if you were a resident, you should have the right to reside?