Has the RNLI has gone mad?

[Stemar]

Am I right in thinking that many of the beaches where the RNLI provide lifeguards look inviting, but have dangerous undertows at times? That would make the stay out of the water while we aren't there comprehensible, at least.

 

[penberth3]

Am I right in thinking that many of the beaches where the RNLI provide lifeguards look inviting, but have dangerous undertows at times? That would make the stay out of the water while we aren't there comprehensible, at least.

You're right, but Joe Public doesn't think like that.

 

[Stemar]

You're right, but Joe Public doesn't think like that.

Which is why the RNLI telling people to stay out isn't as daft as some here would have us believe.

 

[sur-la-mer]

You're right, but Joe Public doesn't think like that.

Full stop in the wrong place. It's "You're right, but Joe Public doesn't think".

 

[dom]

You're right, but Joe Public doesn't think like that.

A stats conundrum:

1. How come Joe Public is so much dumber than average?

2. What blessed event rendered forumite IQs so gloriously far above it?

 

[sur-la-mer]

As as matter of interest, when you go sailing (if you go sailing) do you tend to stick to marinas or do you prefer to go off the beaten track to remote places?

Thankfully, there's still a lot more room at sea. For just now. Unlike pretty much all other trends, I think it's actually only going to increase, so if you don't like people, it's the only way to go.

Boating is too much hard work for the app generation and I have a feeling that the "you-pay-for-my-fun" Youtube/Patreon/Bikini girls sailing crowd will go out of fashion really quickly.

1. How come Joe Public is so much dumber than average?

a) Party it's the difference between mean and median averages.
b) It's the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.
c) Stupidity increases inline with quantity of social media consumed, see below.

People suffer from a type of cognitive bias in which they believe that they are smarter and more capable than they really are. A combination of poor self-awareness and low cognitive ability leads them to overestimate their own capabilities.

Reading an interesting article, Why can’t we read anymore?

 

[jac]

A stats conundrum:

1. How come Joe Public is so much dumber than average?

2. What blessed event rendered forumite IQs so gloriously far above it?

A scarier point - 1/2 the population have below average IQ. ( Or any other measure of intelligence)

As for forumites - Are you sure??????

 

[dom]

A scarier point - 1/2 the population have below average IQ. ( Or any other measure of intelligence)

As for forumites - Are you sure??????

I wonder. Come to think of it, while men and women have roughly equal IQs, women arguably higher on some metrics, it seems to be the case that across a number of different measures, men have a slightly wider distribution of intelligence than women. A wider bell curve in the parlance, except it's not quite a bell curve. Although it is only when one gets well into the top 1% that the effect becomes really noticeable and, as ever, it's hard to fully separate biological from environmental effects.

The flip side also holds and if one thinks about it, anecdotally one certainly seems to meet more really thick men than women. I mean, how many really thick women does one meet down the pub? Hmm.

Returning to your question, I guess we're mostly men on here, so the stakes are even higher

 

[Stemar]

how many really thick women does one meet down the pub?

Ever seen a hen party?

 

[jac]

The flip side also holds and if one thinks about it, anecdotally one certainly seems to meet more really thick men than women. I mean, how many really thick women does one meet down the pub? Hmm.

Is that distorted by the proportion of each sex that people chat to? I would have thought that men are more likely to gravitate to conversation with men and women with women - maybe more in common and i guess many women want to avoid unwanted interest from blokes.

So whilst the proportions may be the same you probably notice the men more.

 

[dom]

Is that distorted by the proportion of each sex that people chat to? I would have thought that men are more likely to gravitate to conversation with men and women with women - maybe more in common and i guess many women want to avoid unwanted interest from blokes.

So whilst the proportions may be the same you probably notice the men more.

Fair points.
Damn, I will now have to withdraw my pub findings from the Journal of Neuroscience. ?

 

[sur-la-mer]

Is that distorted by the proportion of each sex that people chat to?

No, but it's distorted by how much of the chat is about sex.

 

[jac]

No, but it's distorted by how much of the chat is about sex.

More sex talk amongst women i'm assured by my wife and female friends

 

[fisherman]

More sex talk amongst women i'm assured by my wife and female friends

Goodness me yes. From my wife's sewing circle, school, and ex school, staff (now in furlough):
"Why do they call him Snakey?"
"Weelll.....I went on a date with him.....I took one look and thought 'That'll need wetting before it goes in...' "

 

[Capt Popeye]

Am I right in thinking that many of the beaches where the RNLI provide lifeguards look inviting, but have dangerous undertows at times? That would make the stay out of the water while we aren't there comprehensible, at least.

You're right, but Joe Public doesn't think like that.

Which is why the RNLI telling people to stay out isn't as daft as some here would have us believe.

Well not daft maybe, but rather authoritarian and misguided perhaps; the 'Sea is Free' to roam in and swim in, in our UK so far; heaven forbid if it goes the RNLI way, of all depending upon the RNLI a instution without authority, without govt approval by parliament, without public approval, too often these days without public agreement of actions and in particular inactions; It might supprise some RNLI types that in view of the cash in banks held by the RNLI their refusal to man life guards on beaches is completely without creedence or believability at all, lives lost needlessly, and unlike our Govts who cry out, no money' the RNLI cannot claim that, so why do they ?

Might offer the observation that the real Volunteer Life Guards who do man beaches are a Godsend to us Public and DO SAVE LIVES whenever they can, perhaps we should be looking at alternatives to the protection that used to be offered by the RNLI ?

 

[fisherman]

RNLI to cut 135 jobs after 'funding shortfall'
funding shortage, HQ job cuts, not before time some will say

 

[jac]

Well not daft maybe, but rather authoritarian and misguided perhaps; the 'Sea is Free' to roam in and swim in, in our UK so far; heaven forbid if it goes the RNLI way, of all depending upon the RNLI a instution without authority, without govt approval by parliament, without public approval, too often these days without public agreement of actions and in particular inactions; It might supprise some RNLI types that in view of the cash in banks held by the RNLI their refusal to man life guards on beaches is completely without creedence or believability at all, lives lost needlessly, and unlike our Govts who cry out, no money' the RNLI cannot claim that, so why do they ?

Might offer the observation that the real Volunteer Life Guards who do man beaches are a Godsend to us Public and DO SAVE LIVES whenever they can, perhaps we should be looking at alternatives to the protection that used to be offered by the RNLI ?

Agree

I'm fully behind the RNLI educating people of the dangers on specific beaches but any suspicion that any of them thought they could stop people from swimming would be too far. Not expecting lifeguards to take unnecessary risks but just because an individual has a higher risk appetite ( or greater skills) than the lifeguard it doesn't make the lifeguard right.

 

[dom]

Agree

I'm fully behind the RNLI educating people of the dangers on specific beaches but any suspicion that any of them thought they could stop people from swimming would be too far. Not expecting lifeguards to take unnecessary risks but just because an individual has a higher risk appetite ( or greater skills) than the lifeguard it doesn't make the lifeguard right.

Sensible stuff, which would have do doubt echoed the RNLI itself only a few years ago. Then they gave the CEO job to an old school, end-of-career corporate banker. In his first few months he managed to move into foreign jurisdictions where he lent the RNLI's good name to authoritarian regimes' routine discrimination against women, after which the new RNLI PR Director, instead of engaging with the ensuing concerns, simply dismissed them as dinosaurs. A similarly condescending response -- You don't know hat you're talking about, only we do -- no doubt awaits valid questions like yours.

So the dinosaurs stopped giving and the RNLI's finances nosedived, an inevitability which Mark Dowie now attributes to a "perfect storm" in which there was a shortfall in funds at the same time as "more people than ever" needing its services.

Are there really more people? I do sincerely hope the RNLI turns this around, but for now Mark Dowie is holding the line:

 

[jac]

Sensible stuff, which would have do doubt echoed the RNLI itself only a few years ago. Then they gave the CEO job to an old school, end-of-career corporate banker. In his first few months he managed to move into foreign jurisdictions where he lent the RNLI's good name to authoritarian regimes' routine discrimination against women, after which the new RNLI PR Director, instead of engaging with the ensuing concerns, simply dismissed them as dinosaurs. A similarly condescending response -- You don't know hat you're talking about, only we do -- no doubt awaits valid questions like yours.

So the dinosaurs stopped giving and the RNLI's finances nosedived, an inevitability which Mark Dowie now attributes to a "perfect storm" in which there was a shortfall in funds at the same time as "more people than ever" needing its services.

Are there really more people? I do sincerely hope the RNLI turns this around, but for now Mark Dowie is holding the line:

Oi less of the dinosaurs.

I gave to the RNLI for over 20 years through payroll giving which my employer then matched and all counted as GAYE so a couple of thousand over that time. After they started being so preachy and hectoring about simple messages over wearing lifejackets etc I stopped. Loads of other independents that need money.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

The law of unintended consequences! I am an unpaid trustee of a small charity. For the last year we have had to produce, by demand of the charity commission, by demand of parliament, directed to by the government a whole raft of policies:-ethical, investment, safety, recruitment, risk assessment, equal opportunities and data protection etc,etc,etc!! Large charities like the RNLI have to negotiate this minefield and apply what they have stated are their policies. They employ people to implement these policies. Result: crewpersons are sacked, coxwains dismissed, volunteers ordered about, contributors fail to donate and the "perfect storm". As far as the beaches are concerned I suspect it was easier for the CEO to suggest they were to be closed than admit that their beauracracy had failed to do the risk assessments in time, train the lifeguards appropriately in anticipation of the beaches being reopenened and of not being "ahead of the game".
Any organisation today has "to watch its back", but at the same time keep moving forward, a tricky dilemma. Currently the RNLI is stuggling with this I suggest, but I shall continue my support. The mission hasnt changed.