Has the RNLI has gone mad?

[Stemar]

Had there been fora like this in the 50s and 60s, I'm sure there would have been the same debates. The youth of today, blah blah... In fact, I seem to recall reading a prominent Roman saying the same thing.

The trouble with "make 'em pay" is that it simply doesn't work. A few years ago, I found myself out in far more wind than I wanted, in far rougher seas. Someone saw us and called the lifeboat, which turned up and escorted us into Chichester Harbour, where we were going. We didn't need them, we didn't ask for them, so why should we pay? Or maybe the genuinely concerned person who called them out should pay.

I worked for an ambulance service for 20 years and we had this debate regularly regarding abuses of the service. The best - or worst - example I heard was a woman who dialled 999 and described symptoms that got her an emergency response. Then, when she got to Casualty, she wandered through the department to the hairdressers, where she had an appointment. While there was general unanimity that said women should be torn limb from limb, slowly, the consensus was that no matter how you hedge it around with safeguards, most of those who needed charging would have no money and/or had mental problems anyway, and when Granny, who's lived a virtuous life and really doesn't want to be a bother, and who is having her heart attack will be scared to call until it's too late because she isn't sure if it's serious and is scared of being charged.

The logic for lifeboats isn't so different. I'm sure the crews grind their teeth at the third WAFI today who can't start his engine when its a lovely F4, but they'd rather tow him in than have to go out later when it's blowing a hoolie to look for his body.

 

[sur-la-mer]

In that/those cases, you would not because you did not call them. It's a simple question of liability. There for the sake of genuine emergency, not as a safety net for idiocy. Handled a bit like speed fines, eg slap a fine (invoice) on them. If they disagree, go argue it at a tribunal.

Anything involving alcohol, drugs or gangs, bill them.

BTW, didn't they RNLI put a call out to you first or did you have no radio? It's a different discussion, but I'm interested to know.

Read of a few cases where a local RNLI forced their way onto boats against owners wishes (commandeered them), and went on to damage them later. It's wrong though to say, "the RNLI" when it is just an "over enthusiastic" local group. Lesson was, be careful when giving permission for them to board. (In one case, it was just one member of the crew suffering a serious medical condition. The rest and the boat just fine.

 

[Stemar]

It was a while ago, and not my boat, but I'm pretty sure we had the radio on, but didn't hear anything. As it happened, they were out for a jolly/on a training exercise (select according to your prejudices), so the idea of having a real boat to play with probably pleased them.

 

[mainsail1]

We had the same in Christchurch Bay some years ago when we had a pot line caught on our rudder. We did not ask for the RNLI but they arrived and put a guy onboard before you could say WTF.
In fact, the RNLI guy said he thought the pot line belonged to a mate of his and we should not cut it.

 

[Stemar]

We had the same in Christchurch Bay some years ago when we had a pot line caught on our rudder. We did not ask for the RNLI but they arrived and put a guy onboard before you could say WTF.
In fact, the RNLI guy said he thought the pot line belonged to a mate of his and we should not cut it.

Well, if he could get it off without cutting it, no problem. I'd be against cutting if it can be avoided, because it means leaving a pot on the bottom to go on trapping and starving crabs and lobsters for years.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Might mention that its quite common for a call for help over VHF Radio to be answered by most of the Rescue Services if they can, even if they just turn up to be counted, as to say ?

Reports of RNLI inshore reporting as assisted a Yacht in distress because they had run aground and were waiting for the tide to turn, before floating off, then resuming their voyage.

Does seem as if the Rescue Services sometimes like to add a casualty to their daily tally sometimes ?

Suppose the Coast Guard can act as a dampening influence on the official Call Outs being an intermedry ?

 

[Tomahawk]

We had the same in Christchurch Bay some years ago when we had a pot line caught on our rudder. We did not ask for the RNLI but they arrived and put a guy onboard before you could say WTF.
In fact, the RNLI guy said he thought the pot line belonged to a mate of his and we should not cut it.

Anything like the lobster pot that caught me a couple of weeks ago.. Had a floating line that went sideways for nearly 10m from the surface marker. We passed well away from the marker but caught the floating line. I consider that to be a hazard to navigation.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Might mention that its quite common for a call for help over VHF Radio to be answered by most of the Rescue Services if they can, even if they just turn up to be counted, as to say ?

Reports of RNLI inshore reporting as assisted a Yacht in distress because they had run aground and were waiting for the tide to turn, before floating off, then resuming their voyage.

Does seem as if the Rescue Services sometimes like to add a casualty to their daily tally sometimes ?

Suppose the Coast Guard can act as a dampening influence on the official Call Outs being an intermedry ?

Not in my experience. It's actually quite unusual for an RNLI lifeboat to self launch without being tasked by the CG.
Although the full-timer at an ALB station might be monitoring the VHF, ILB stations are unmanned, so there's no one there to hear a distress call in any case.

 

[Mark-1]

If the RNLI/Independents feel it's desirable to do less shouts the best thing they could do is heavily promote Nautical Breakdown services such as Seastart. (Marine Breakdown Assistance by Sea Start) Seastart will tow you; get you off the putty if you're aground. They're superb. Best of all they're discrete. You don't need to call the CG to get hold of them and your embarrassing misshap won't be all over facebook/twitter.

That assumes that the RNLI want less shouts, but IME of colleagues/friends who are crew members less shouts is the last thing they want.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Anything like the lobster pot that caught me a couple of weeks ago.. Had a floating line that went sideways for nearly 10m from the surface marker. We passed well away from the marker but caught the floating line. I consider that to be a hazard to navigation.

I was caught - I wrote about it here at the time - by a line running from a buoy submerged 6' to another on the surface whicg I could see and was avoiding. The submerged line went under my keel, then popped up the slot between sternpost and rudder. A character-building twenty minutes followed. The CG afterwards asked me for the precise location of the buoy; I gathered that Tobermory lifeboat planned o do something about it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

If the RNLI/Independents feel it's desirable to do less shouts the best thing they could do is heavily promote Nautical Breakdown services such as Seastart. (Marine Breakdown Assistance by Sea Start) Seastart will tow you; get you off the putty if you're aground. They're superb. Best of all they're discrete. You don't need to call the CG to get hold of them and your embarrassing misshap won't be all over facebook/twitter.

Someone tried something similar on the Clyde but it flopped, possibly because they wanted something like £180 for a maximum of one call out, working hours and northern half of the Firth only.

 

[sur-la-mer]

they arrived and put a guy onboard before you could say WTF.
In fact, the RNLI guy said he thought the pot line belonged to a mate of his and we should not cut it.

I think you discovered yourself the real reason for it. I thought they needed expressed permission to board and take command unless you were incapacitated or serious danger?

Can't find the procedural documents at present.

 

[Juan Twothree]

You don't need to call the CG to get hold of them and your embarrassing misshap won't be all over facebook/twitter.

Which shouldn't happen anyway if the station involved is following the RNLI's fairly strict press and social media guidelines.

If any person, or their vessel, is identifiable in a photo, then we have to obtain consent from the individual for that image/video to appear. It's easy with video, as we can get the consent on camera.

Certainly, if I'm in a position to take a piccy on a shout, I always try to make sure that the person is looking away from the camera, and that the boat name or sail number isn't visible.

However the RNLI has absolutely no control over members of the public taking photo/video of craft or people being landed ashore, and then sending those images to the press or social media.

 

[Mark-1]

Which shouldn't happen anyway if the station involved is following the RNLI's fairly strict press and social media guidelines.

If any person, or their vessel, is identifiable in a photo, then we have to obtain consent from the individual for that image/video to appear. It's easy with video, as we can get the consent on camera.

Certainly, if I'm in a position to take a piccy on a shout, I always try to make sure that the person is looking away from the camera, and that the boat name or sail number isn't visible.

Bit of a tangent but vessels and people are often identifiable even if the guy is turned away and the sail number isn't visible. I'm also pretty sure boat names often appear in the media (not just social media). So I'd question the whole idea of anonymity once the news gets out.

Even if you accept it's anonymous it still isn't nice. 4 kids got stuck downwind/tide on paddle boards near me yesterday. Shared on FB this morning in reasonably pejorative terms with dozens of keyboard warriors all pronouncing on what twats they were. Nobody needs that - especially kids. I don't know who they are but I bet they feel pretty humiliated this morning.

But this is a tangent to my point. I'm saying the RNLI would save themselves a lot of shouts if they gave some publicity to Seastart and similar.

For instance I'm pretty sure the RNLI were advising against people sailing during the worst of the Corona Virus crisis. How much more constructive would it have been if they'd said "We'd prefer not to rescue people on boats at the moment, but why not get yourself a Seastart or similar membership and go out anyway, that should cover 90pc of our callouts to boats and we can handle the other 10pc without much additional risk to our crews."

Everyone wins. RNLI reduce risk to their crews. People get to sail more. Long term there's a massive reduction in captain calamity boat casualties because 90pc of boat casualties won't be captain calamity casualties any more they'll just be normal people who need a tow or their carb tweaked. The people who get helped get service with a smile instead of "words of advice".

 

[mainsail1]

I think you discovered yourself the real reason for it. I thought they needed expressed permission to board and take command unless you were incapacitated or serious danger?

Can't find the procedural documents at present.

They did not take command. There was no drama. Buzz Lightyear, as we called him because he had so much safety equipment on, came onboard and was very helpful. Something that might have taken us half an hour/an hour to sort was done in five minutes when they towed us backward for a few meters. My only point was that it was unrequested help. They said they were out anyway and they were happy to help.

 

[fisherman]

Well, if he could get it off without cutting it, no problem. I'd be against cutting if it can be avoided, because it means leaving a pot on the bottom to go on trapping and starving crabs and lobsters for years.

The average UK pot is made with poly netting, and is eaten through by crabs, with older gear within five days or even less.
In the US they use weldmesh, but not popular here.
When I left pots out over the winter, Jan-march I would not bait them and leave the door open, otherwise the whole lot had to come in for mending.

 

[fisherman]

Lifeguards or life saving equipment were initiated in Cornwall in the fifties, after too many drownings. Can't recall the figure or find it, must be there somewhere.

 

[temptress]

The Chief Executive of the Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI) has called on the government to restrict access to the coast until there are lifeguards back on the beaches.
Mark Dowie issued an open letter after two people died on Cornwall’s coastline on Monday.
"With thousands flocking to English beaches now lockdown restrictions have been eased, we must choose between keeping the public or our lifeguards safe," Mr Dowie wrote.

yes

the RNLI are doing a great job but are losing the plot. This has been happening slowly for years.

the safest way to go to sea a is NOT to go to sea at all..

 

[temptress]

The thing is, the RNLI seems to assume we all want them to take charge of our safety. Not me!

well said

 

[langstonelayabout]

The thing is, the RNLI seems to assume we all want them to take charge of our safety. Not me!

+1. I'm happy for the RNLI to man their lifeboats to save distressed mariners. They're damn good at it.

However, I do object to the RNLI (or anyone else for that matter) telling me that I can't use the beach near my own home. Sorry, but that's overstepping the mark. I'm happy to manage my own risks and they can f. off.

Does anyone else think this unreasonable?