Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA

[tenerani]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Help please. A boat that spent 10 months ashore in Greece and 2 months in the water with a 12 month contract, will be entitled of the 20% discount to yachts > 12 m moored for the whole current year in Greece?

 

[santelmo]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Regarding the SEPA money transfer scheme. I had to use it on four occasions during the summer. each time Nationwide charged me a credit transfer fee of £9 regardless of the sum involved. I think that it is free only if the transfer is euro to euro within the eurozone. See wikipedia.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Help please. A boat that spent 10 months ashore in Greece and 2 months in the water with a 12 month contract, will be entitled of the 20% discount to yachts > 12 m moored for the whole current year in Greece?

See #152 ,
20% to yachts > 12 m moored for the whole current year in Greece. Relative declaration is required by the management of the port or marina.
I take it that if it's out of use then there be nothing to pay on them months .
Not sure how it stand if a boat is only wintering in a marina in the water ,
Is that still class out of use ?

 

[macd]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

The good news ambivalence is that after next March (or after any transition period), Most Brits will only be allowed six months p.a. in Greek waters, anyway. And that's assuming they don't use up any of that allowance elsewhere in Schengen. Annual tax rate (and hence discount) probably won't be worthwhile.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

See #152 ,
20% to yachts > 12 m moored for the whole current year in Greece. Relative declaration is required by the management of the port or marina.
I take it that if it's out of use then there be nothing to pay on them months .
Not sure how it stand if a boat is only wintering in a marina in the water ,
Is that still class out of use ?

We have to determine what will constitute out of use - ie not cruising, but on board afloat, not cruising and empty, Hauled out.

Currently you need to go to Port Police and fill in the forms (they do it on a screen) and you then surrender your ships papers, you get a piece of paper - the receipt.(time taken approx 30 minutes)
To put back into use, down to Port Police, Give them the form you were given - show that you have paid the TEPAH - get your papers back, and off you go sailing (20 minutes)

- oh Joy - think of the queues when you decide to go sailing - of course it will be the 1st of the montth and everyone will have the same idea as you - and were you wondering why the flight was more expensive over the end of the month - yep - everyone will be on the planes end of the month. - oh dear - I cant get my boat launched because 40 others are going in ahead of me.....

This really need to be changed - It will be interesting to see whether all the agreements we arrived at to cover these issue will have been thought about.

Actually I am quite relaxed because the last 2 times the law came into force - and that was the signal to sort out how it was done - this time someone had a good idea - "lets start it without any plans... ..."

Will it evaporate as last time as the Port Police decide not to collect - having seen the work involved. No - I think this time, because they have this registration system in place, that it will be sort of paperless. The port police can look up the system and see if you have paid. What will happen to the DEKPA - I bet they keep it ....

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

The good news ambivalence is that after next March (or after any transition period), Most Brits will only be allowed six months p.a. in Greek waters, anyway. And that's assuming they don't use up any of that allowance elsewhere in Schengen. Annual tax rate (and hence discount) probably won't be worthwhile.

Mac - this has come up a couple of times when Aussies have been warned (at Kos) that they cannot be on the boat for more than 6 months despite the TI being 18 Months, and that they had annual tourist visas. I believe they were told that another skipper or user could be on the boat.

It was difficult to work out - was it the fact that over 6 months and you established a tax residency and that meant VAT would be payable - if it was they need to look at the definitions used for this in EU Law- (Determined by where the person had a home and normally earned his living) - that is unless they are a liveaboard - when they could fall foul of it.

A point to note about the new Registration system is that it holds the VAT details of the boat - including details of the Proof of VAT payment or confirmation of exemption. Will this catch some people out? - a good way for the Greeks to replace their failing Bond market. (watch this space on that.)...

 

[macd]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Hi, Chris. And thanks again for the diligent work.

Yes, it's crucial to distinguish between a third country boat and its crew. The former can stay 18 months on TI, the latter is usually limited to 90 days in 180. My reference to six months per year was as per that allowance, times two, i.e. 180 days in 360, but in two tranches of 90, which won't be attractive to everyone. 180 days p.a. won't make you tax resident (although, as you mention, the 183 days in a year test actually has little legal foundation...it's just simple to describe and understand.) As you imply, a liveaboard with no demonstrable ties to another country could conceivably fall foul of it, but that's been the case for years. I know of no instances where it's been enforced.

Ozzies don't need actual Schengen visas for short stays, but are still limited to 90-in-180. Perhaps the Ozzies you mention had long-stay visas? I seem to remember from chatting to one that Kiwis can stay six months at a stretch in Greece under a pre-Schengen treaty, but may have mixed that up with Oz. (Whoever it is, they often have to argue to case since immigration officials are sometimes ignorant of it.)

It may be that Brexit agreements on historic EU VAT will mean British-owned vessels will retain their former EU status and have no need for TI. Or it may not. We wait and see.

If the worst comes to the worst, the Turkish lira is very cheap at present...

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Mac I don't think you far of the mark and if things carry on as they are ,
Turkey will see an influx of boats come the end of next year .
For boat owners under 12 mts which are only out for a few month , the tax isn't going to be a deal breaker but for people with 12mts plus who spend a good porpoise of the year , it going to be something their are going to have to think about very carefully, that 1k tax will go a long way to covering their winter mooring or hard standing fee .

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Hi, Chris. And thanks again for the diligent work.

Yes, it's crucial to distinguish between a third country boat and its crew. The former can stay 18 months on TI, the latter is usually limited to 90 days in 180. My reference to six months per year was as per that allowance, times two, i.e. 180 days in 360, but in two tranches of 90, which won't be attractive to everyone. 180 days p.a. won't make you tax resident (although, as you mention, the 183 days in a year test actually has little legal foundation...it's just simple to describe and understand.) As you imply, a liveaboard with no demonstrable ties to another country could conceivably fall foul of it, but that's been the case for years. I know of no instances where it's been enforced.

Ozzies don't need actual Schengen visas for short stays, but are still limited to 90-in-180. Perhaps the Ozzies you mention had long-stay visas? I seem to remember from chatting to one that Kiwis can stay six months at a stretch in Greece under a pre-Schengen treaty, but may have mixed that up with Oz. (Whoever it is, they often have to argue to case since immigration officials are sometimes ignorant of it.)

It may be that Brexit agreements on historic EU VAT will mean British-owned vessels will retain their former EU status and have no need for TI. Or it may not. We wait and see.

If the worst comes to the worst, the Turkish lira is very cheap at present...

Yes the Aussies had 12 month visitor Visas, so I was hard put to understand. The Greek Finance (customs) in Athens just said - talk to Kos... I didnot as it might have caused problems.

Good news it that there will be an announcement today being Gazetted amending the LAw on the Start Date.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Mac I don't think you far of the mark and if things carry on as they are ,
Turkey will see an influx of boats come the end of next year .
For boat owners under 12 mts which are only out for a few month , the tax isn't going to be a deal breaker but for people with 12mts plus who spend a good porpoise of the year , it going to be something their are going to have to think about very carefully, that 1k tax will go a long way to covering their winter mooring or hard standing fee .

Vic - we will be pushing for a sensible out of use clause - in the water - whether that will include the live aboard status through the winter I dont know - but we will have a bloody good try.

 

[comino]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Gouvia Marina have contacted me to say they will be e-mailing all their customers with instructions on how to pay the tax as soon as the Ministry releases details.

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Vic - we will be pushing for a sensible out of use clause - in the water - whether that will include the live aboard status through the winter I dont know - but we will have a bloody good try.

I don't really see how one can claim a boat is 'out of use' in the water - and then continue to live on it?

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

I don't really see how one can claim a boat is 'out of use' in the water - and then continue to live on it?

That's been my line of thinking Tony , to top that say as some do , go home June to sept unless they leave in May and don't return till Oct , they still will have to pay part or June and part of Sept so in reality they only going to get two months out of use .
One stage further , July to Aug they could end up with paying for the time they not using the boat unless the leave and return a month ever end of there time away .
Is it only me , or is this law set out for everyone to jump through hoops and even then with a chance of getting caught out .
Chris your going a great job , good luck with making more head way .

 

[macd]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

I don't really see how one can claim a boat is 'out of use' in the water - and then continue to live on it?

On the other hand, why should you then be obliged to have a operative permit to cruise? And if you're living aboard on the hard, aren't you still using it but, just as if afloat, not for its special purpose?

 

[kof]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Hi all
Just reading about this new tax - Can anyone tell me how you sign in a boat that's owned by a business ( not a charter). Form looks for the passports of the registered owners which would be a problem.

thanks

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

We think the start date will be changed to April - hopefully they will confirm this in the Government Gazette on Monday - after we are all criminalised by not paying on time. Piss and Brewery springs to mind.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

I don't really see how one can claim a boat is 'out of use' in the water - and then continue to live on it?

It was discussed as such my the Marinas association with the Ministry last year and I think they got a concession - before the whole thing went on ice.

 

[vasant]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

We think the start date will be changed to April - hopefully they will confirm this in the Government Gazette on Monday - after we are all criminalised by not paying on time. Piss and Brewery springs to mind.

imagine you live and work here...this is business as usual. You are never legal, you can at any time get a fine based on some forgotten law.
Europe bailed out this sickness. Fair winds!

 

[vasant]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

We think the start date will be changed to April - hopefully they will confirm this in the Government Gazette on Monday - after we are all criminalised by not paying on time. Piss and Brewery springs to mind.

Confirmed!
https://www.aade.gr/egkyklioi-kai-apophaseis/pol-1214-23-11-2018

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

Confirmed!
https://www.aade.gr/egkyklioi-kai-apophaseis/pol-1214-23-11-2018

Thanks for the link , but what's Confirmed ? It's all Greek to me payment delayed? Or as it stood?