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Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA

Tony Cross

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Re: Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA - Fines on DEKPA

On the other hand, why should you then be obliged to have a operative permit to cruise? And if you're living aboard on the hard, aren't you still using it but, just as if afloat, not for its special purpose?
It is illegal in Greece to live aboard any boat that's on the hard. I know many marinas turn an unofficial bling eye to this. I'm quite sure that the Greek authorities will consider any boat that is declared 'out of use' as being out of all use. I don't think it's wise to get one's hopes up that you'll be able to declare it out of use over winter and still live on it...
 

Chris_Robb

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Confirmed delay to 4th April

Thanks for the link , but what's Confirmed ? It's all Greek to me :) payment delayed? Or as it stood?
Vasant - just got the email from the AADE - and it confirms the whole law is delayed till 4th April.
And here explanation of the Greek - normally I have to fight to get them to explain!

And since you don't understand Greek language yet, I have to explain to you that the amending decision postpones its entry into force until April 2. Meaning that, not only the deadline for in time payment for those ships/boats etc already in Greece, but the entry into force of the Decision as a whole is cancelled for four months, in order for the taxpayers to be able to make their payments via the electronic system (e-TEPAH) which will be ready until then.
thank you again

The work now starts to make sure its a sensible implementation plan.
 

BurnitBlue

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Delayed to 2/4/19 according to the Greek Government Gazette.
Mike
Don't congratulate the delay too soon. Don't forget March 29th (Friday) is the date Brexit comes in if no deal. April 2nd 2019 is one working day later and means that UK boaters cannot get an advance arrangement to sneak under the wire. We must wait until the new brexit deal before we can apply for the tax and permission to stay. Whatever that means, the Greeks will be on the money receiving end. Be careful that the marina will even launch your boat after April 2nd unless you have complied with the new rules. Whatever they will be.

For that reason I will make advance arrangements to launch in March and get the heck away from there. Frankly I do not trust the Greeks on iota in this situation. The Greek citizens do not pay their taxes so the tourist must pay them instead. Forget that, I have enough problems paying taxes where I live without being made to pay their Greek taxes as well.
 

JonJon

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7 Aug 2004
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Why don't they add up the number of boats in Greece work out how much money they wish to raise and divide one by the other and make that an annual cruising tax for Greece pay by bank transfer. Scrap all this ridiculous DEKPA stuff long queues in the PP office, tax office and bank in the sweltering heat etcetc - Simples - I could be a bureaucrat if I tried now about Brexit...……….
 

Tony Cross

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For that reason I will make advance arrangements to launch in March and get the heck away from there. Frankly I do not trust the Greeks on iota in this situation. The Greek citizens do not pay their taxes so the tourist must pay them instead. Forget that, I have enough problems paying taxes where I live without being made to pay their Greek taxes as well.
The Greek people, and successive Greek governments, have many failings, nobody is perfect. I wouldn't hold up the current UK government as a shining example of how to run a country either. But this age-old (and offensive) myth that '...the Greek citizens do not pay their taxes...' is just rubbish. Most Greeks pay a form of PAYE and have no choice but to pay their income tax, huge advances have been made in the area of VAT avoidance too. It is true that professionals who use a form of self-assessment have been, and still are in many cases, able by various legal and questionably legal means to under-report their income and assets - much the same thing happens in the UK too amongst the rich and in many large corporations.

The idea that tourists must pay for Greek tax avoidance is nonsense of course, but neither should tourists expect a free ride. Greece carries a crippling debt and needs to raise taxes to service that debt. Improving tax collection amongst Greek citizens is a part of that, another part is looking at new ways of generating income. A tax on the use of Greek waters, payable by everyone, is not exactly unreasonable for a country in debt. They are trying to maximise the income from the resources they have, any business laden with debt would be doing the same, and they're not the first to try this sort of tax either.

You are of course perfectly free to choose not to pay this tax and leave, I'm sure many others will do the same. But please don't pretend you're going because of irresponsible Greeks, you're going because you don't want to pay for something that in the past has been free. You're entitled to do that of course but don't blame the Greeks for trying to dig themselves out of a hole.
 

sailaboutvic

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The Greek people, and successive Greek governments, have many failings, nobody is perfect. I wouldn't hold up the current UK government as a shining example of how to run a country either. But this age-old (and offensive) myth that '...the Greek citizens do not pay their taxes...' is just rubbish. Most Greeks pay a form of PAYE and have no choice but to pay their income tax, huge advances have been made in the area of VAT avoidance too. It is true that professionals who use a form of self-assessment have been, and still are in many cases, able by various legal and questionably legal means to under-report their income and assets - much the same thing happens in the UK too amongst the rich and in many large corporations.

The idea that tourists must pay for Greek tax avoidance is nonsense of course, but neither should tourists expect a free ride. Greece carries a crippling debt and needs to raise taxes to service that debt. Improving tax collection amongst Greek citizens is a part of that, another part is looking at new ways of generating income. A tax on the use of Greek waters, payable by everyone, is not exactly unreasonable for a country in debt. They are trying to maximise the income from the resources they have, any business laden with debt would be doing the same, and they're not the first to try this sort of tax either.

You are of course perfectly free to choose not to pay this tax and leave, I'm sure many others will do the same. But please don't pretend you're going because of irresponsible Greeks, you're going because you don't want to pay for something that in the past has been free. You're entitled to do that of course but don't blame the Greeks for trying to dig themselves out of a hole.
Tony although I agree with some of your posting , you really can't expect us to believe the Greek are queuing up to pay there taxes and all the sudden they are the most honest people on this earth , I made two very large purchases in Greece this year running into thousand , both company without me even asking offer me a better price if I paid in cash .
I wouldn't had minded wasn't even that big to make it worth my while .
 

macd

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Don't forget March 29th (Friday) is the date Brexit comes in if no deal. April 2nd 2019 is one working day later and means that UK boaters cannot get an advance arrangement to sneak under the wire....The Greek citizens do not pay their taxes
So in one fell swoop you criticise the Greeks for cheating and then bemoan your inability to do the same. There's a word for such postures.

And...fact check...as Tony wrote, most Greeks do not cheat on their income tax any more than Brits do: because they can't.
 

macd

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Tony although I agree with some of your posting , you really can't expect us to believe the Greek are queuing up to pay there taxes and all the sudden they are the most honest people on this earth , I made two very large purchases in Greece this year running into thousand , both company without me even asking offer me a better price if I paid in cash .
I wouldn't had minded wasn't even that big to make it worth my while .
Vic, with the utmost respect to you, that's a perversion of Tony's post.
 

Crisby

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You're easily flattered, Mr Simpleton.

I suggest you consider the fairness of levying the same tax on a 7m boat as on a superyacht, which is what you propose.
Personally as an owner of a 12.5m boat I would love to see a bit more consistency with the tax banding. We ve had smaller boats before on a tight budget so understand some of the tax weighting but 12.5m is far from super yacht and older bigger boats are quite often on a budget as well.

Chris
 

macd

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Personally as an owner of a 12.5m boat I would love to see a bit more consistency with the tax banding. We ve had smaller boats before on a tight budget so understand some of the tax weighting but 12.5m is far from super yacht and older bigger boats are quite often on a budget as well.
That is hard to disagree with. The leap at 12m is punishing. (At which point I must declare an interest: our boat is 14m).

On the evidence of a few recent posts, the Greeks mind find a fruitful alternative source of income in taxing hypocrisy and stupidity.
 

BurnitBlue

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So in one fell swoop you criticise the Greeks for cheating and then bemoan your inability to do the same. There's a word for such postures.

And...fact check...as Tony wrote, most Greeks do not cheat on their income tax any more than Brits do: because they can't.
How on earth am I cheating by deciding to leave Greece. I do not understand your post at all. I pay my taxes every year in Sweden. I do not cheat. However I do NOT owe the Greeks anything at all. I will not be in Greece when the taxes become due and I am taking legal steps to ensure my boat will not be in Greece either. You seem to think that I am obliged to stay in Greece and pay a tax on waters they do not provide. Yes they provide third rate harbours and marinas and supermarkets which they already charge for. But I do not agree that I should pay for sailing in territorial waters as a tax. Very few EU countries do that. I am frankly puzzled by your accusation that there is a special word for such a simple posture of considering that the waters of the world were there before Greedy governments decided that they alone provided those waters so should be reimbursed. In fact every facility in Greece seems to be provided by cafe's etc. and expect payment (or buy a lousy meal) even to get out of the dinghy. Assuming there is any safe place to land. The tap water is polluted and spawns a bottled water regime. The toilets still demand the paper be placed in a plastic thingy despite millions on sanitation disposal units payed for by the EU.

And another thing I don't give a rats ass how many Greeks do or do not pay their taxes as long as I am not expected to supplement the shortfall.

Special word? Holy smoke you have lived in Greece too long. Get real.
 

BurnitBlue

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That is hard to disagree with. The leap at 12m is punishing. (At which point I must declare an interest: our boat is 14m).

On the evidence of a few recent posts, the Greeks mind find a fruitful alternative source of income in taxing hypocrisy and stupidity.
You are either a fool or an idiot. Or perhaps you are drunk. You seem to support a system that taxes anything they have a mind to. There is simply no answer to your last paragraph except to assume that you are stupid.
 

BurnitBlue

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You're not. But you seem to be bemoaning that events may prevent you from doing so: "...means that UK boaters cannot get an advance arrangement to sneak under the wire".
I have no desire or intention of sneaking under the wire. I wrote that point to focus on the almost unbelievable fact that the Greeks made a decision to delay with only a few days between the first announcement and the decision to delay. That decision (after only four days of complaints) to delay implementation to the next working day after Brexit must be an alltime record for Greece. It caused me to be suspicious about the speed and maybe was the desired result anyway.

If UK complain about the timing it can be said that the CA asked for the delay so have only themselves to blame if a no deal takes place and UK boaters are left in the cold with no time to avoid breaking the law. Seems like the CA were led by the nose by the worlds best begging negotiators.

I repeat, I am leaving Greece with my boat, I will not be breaking any law because I don't trust them. Do you honestly believe that Greek society is not corrupt?
 

sailaboutvic

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You are either a fool or an idiot. Or perhaps you are drunk. You seem to support a system that taxes anything they have a mind to. There is simply no answer to your last paragraph except to assume that you are stupid.
Come on ladies , in the end of the day we all in the same boat , no need for name calling . :)
 
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