Greek Cruising Tax update from the CA

Chris_Robb

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Not much forthcoming from the Greek Government but our contacts in the Greek Marina Association have updated us on what they think is happening.
During the summer the Bill went back to Parliament with new charge rate of €10 per meter above 12 meters, raised from €8, despite the iniquity of huge jump in cost from 11.99 to 12.00.
That was rejected and the new price coming before the parliament at the moment is back to the €8 per meter. We at the CA, will continue to raise our voices in complaint that it is too expensive.
However there has apparently been one concession driven by the Marina Association - which of course was worried about the very big boats - in that the tax will only apply when cruising - ie when you leave your port. We haven't seen the new definition yet as it was only conceded yesterday. I just wonder how they will enforce that. Its fairly obvious how that will benefit the big boats on occasional charter.
This however leaves us with our original complaints totally unanswered, but that was as expected as the real work starts when they have to do the implementation plan.
Just to remind you of the rates
Length Meters - scroll right at the bottom of the table - I cant get it to show correctlyMonthly Charge €6 months12 monthsless discount *discountAnnual charge
7 to 8 meters169619210%19173
8 to 102515030010%30270
10 to 123319839610%40356
12.01 meters96576115310%1151038
13 meters104624124810%1251123
14 meters112672134410%1341210
15 meters120720144010%1441296
* Discount only available if taken out in Jan 1 for the year.

The law will be passed back once passed to the Shipping Ministry for Implementation. There are so many unknowns, for instance will it be 1st to 30th of each month or by calender date (much better)?
I think we are going to have to shout very loud this time to be heard.
My personal opinion is that the rates are too high above 12 meters, with a 12m boat paying €3.00 per day. In relation to the Croatian Sojurn tax - they seem to be level pegging.
So will boats of 11.99 meters now be going for a premium?
angry_smile.png

To be honest, I don't think we will now have any weight in changing the charges, but what is important is that we ensure its not a pain in the bottom for us to comply, so I think that is where I will put my time.
All ideas welcome by the way - also I sometimes need better translations than google will do, as all the Greek Government replies to me are in Greek, which is not exactly helpful!
 

jordanbasset

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[However there has apparently been one concession driven by the Marina Association - which of course was worried about the very big boats - in that the tax will only apply when cruising - ie when you leave your port. We haven't seen the new definition yet as it was only conceded yesterday. I just wonder how they will enforce that. Its fairly obvious how that will benefit the big boats on occasional charter


Also can't see how they will enforce this, how will they know when we are in our port or not. I suppose they may say it only applies to those in marinas and then leave it to marina staff to check each day, but that seems a recipe for confusion (what happens if you are cruising for 2 days out of the month etc) and will not help those not in marinas.
 

Chris_Robb

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Also can't see how they will enforce this, how will they know when we are in our port or not. I suppose they may say it only applies to those in marinas and then leave it to marina staff to check each day, but that seems a recipe for confusion (what happens if you are cruising for 2 days out of the month etc) and will not help those not in marinas.

I can see how it may be done for Superyachts, but totally in the dark about how that can be translated for us cruising fraternity. I will chase up a copy of the new Bill, but it is unlikely to go into detail - thats for the implementation stage.

What we will be watching for is any difference in treatment between super yachts and us. That would be illegal under EU law (yes we are still in!) and a complaint through the commission may be necessary.
 

stranded

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The actual duty levels even for 12m+ don't seem unreasonable. I guess they have decided that the 12m step is the point at which a boat becomes a "luxury yacht". Funny thing is, 20 or 30 years ago we would probably have agreed with them, but it looks a bit odd today.
 

Chris_Robb

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The actual duty levels even for 12m+ don't seem unreasonable. I guess they have decided that the 12m step is the point at which a boat becomes a "luxury yacht". Funny thing is, 20 or 30 years ago we would probably have agreed with them, but it looks a bit odd today.

Some might think that and my own (not necessarily the CAs) opinion is that the Greeks have an absolute right to raise tax. It just needs to be fair and easy to comply with.
 

Chris_Robb

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Vic,
You are obviously having a bad day!!!

What Chris was trying to say was that yachts 11.99m long and less may now attract a premium "sales" price Not a premium tax rate. ie People might now pay more for a 11.99m yacht as opposed to a 12.1m yacht!!!

Thanks Cris - wasn't explaining myself well. But in terms of the charge rate change at the 12 meter band - its not exactly clear - the bill states 8 -12 meters and the €8 /meter charge is applicable to boats over 12 meters - so dont be exactly 12 meters or you could be in either bracket according to which port police you choose. Simple to clarify if exactly 12 meters on your SSR form. Perhaps Illegal but but you could measure it as 11.99M.
 

sailaboutvic

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Vic,
You are obviously having a bad day!!!

What Chris was trying to say was that yachts 11.99m long and less may now attract a premium "sales" price Not a premium tax rate. ie People might now pay more for a 11.99m yacht as opposed to a 12.1m yacht!!!

Yep got that Chris , I read some thing that wasn't there .
 

crisjones

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Thanks Cris - wasn't explaining myself well. But in terms of the charge rate change at the 12 meter band - its not exactly clear - the bill states 8 -12 meters and the €8 /meter charge is applicable to boats over 12 meters - so dont be exactly 12 meters or you could be in either bracket according to which port police you choose. Simple to clarify if exactly 12 meters on your SSR form. Perhaps Illegal but but you could measure it as 11.99M.

Ahh!!
I see where the confusion came from now!!

Maybe a copy of Photoshop is cheaper than the difference between 11.99m and 12.1m :)
 

sailaboutvic

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This is really going to depend on what your last new DEKPA says now ,
if you didn't have the foresight to sorted it before hand ,
And if has they say it's all computer listed now , you going to have a problem .
Wink wink if you know what I mean .
 

whiteoaks7

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Do we know when we're actually going to be hit with this? It's been threatening for some years now so are they any closer to actually taking the money off us. And how is that going to be done - are they still keeping the PP fingers off it? On line?
 

macd

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Do we know when we're actually going to be hit with this? It's been threatening for some years now so are they any closer to actually taking the money off us. And how is that going to be done - are they still keeping the PP fingers off it? On line?

To the best of my knowledge no high officials in the Greek Ministry of Shipping frequent this forum, so don't hold your breath for an answer. Do you seriously think that if Chris could answer what you ask he wouldn't already have done so? I can assure you he'd be delighted to be so privy to what's going on.
 

Mr Cassandra

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How do I sell a 14.3-metre boat to myself, change its name and sell myself the shorter new name boat?
I do have an SSR for a 11.9 m boat that is not in Greece? in fact its only in my imagination. My old Sunfast 39

serious question
 
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