Go Big or Go Home?

Bouba

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It isn't difficult.
The Sailrite machine is a MUST in order to get the quality of the stitching right.
Apart from that, the biggest learning curve I have had has been in selecting the materials.
Then working techniques that I can handle.
All this information and techniques I'm happy to share.
Hurricane, what do you use for poppers to attach your covers to the deck? And do you need a machine to attach the poppers to the covers?
 

Hurricane

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@ Hurricane how do you know or did you know your charger was fully working .I mean chucking out what it says on the tin ?
Or is up to the job even if not decaying?
You need to "read up" on battery theory.
I also have a Victron Battery Monitor.
Which doesn't just monitor the voltage.
It takes everything into consideration, including how much current has been drawn from the battery bank.
It then shows the battery state as a percentage which is much more accurate that just monitoring the voltage.

The Victron unit also shows the instantaneous current draw/charge of the system.

As an example, when the batteries are at their least charge, they will take about 80amps.
Half an hour later that drops to about 40 amps.
Half an hour later that will drop to about 20 amps
And so on.
So, after 3 hours, they might be charging at 10 amps
So it would take several hours to completely charge the bank.
Note that at the start of the charge cycle, the batteries are taking significantly more than after an hour or two.
Those figures are only an example though.

When I first fitted the solar panels, I watched the system like a hawk.
Now, I am less worried - the system - just works.
 

Hooligan

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It’s my personal view that your generator will be running all night in the Med. First SWMBO generally wants a comfortable night’s sleep. Second your kids do as well. Third having a miserable SWMBO and children onboard results in misery and short boating life. Generally wind comes across the bow not the sides of the boat which means that the only cabin likely to get wind coming in on a breezy night is the forward cabin especially if you use a sock as yachting do. the kids and everyone else.......it is likely to be hell in the height of summer. Ergo most people put the generator on at night. The inverter is helpful for daytime when you don’t need a generator on and it will allow you to charge phones, computers, run TV. Boiling a kettle draws tons of power and really needs the generator on. IMHO if you have a limited budget make sure the generator is where you spend money not the inverter. PPS someone once told me that the two things that always cause disasters ie complications are inverters and ice makers.
 

Hurricane

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Hurricane, what do you use for poppers to attach your covers to the deck? And do you need a machine to attach the poppers to the covers?
Interesting question.
I'm afraid that the answer is quite expensive.
You can use a simile device that you buy in the chandlers for a few pennies.
These cheap ones come with a punch and a riveter which you hit with a hammer.
But, the best job is to use the correct tool which is disproportionately expensive.
I bought mine years ago and then a second one for home long before I started making covers for this boat.

This is the one that I use:-
Pres-N-Snap-Fastener-Tool_1.jpg


I think that the cheapest place to get these ones is from Sailrite.
But there are other options about - it is just that these ones are particularly good.
 

Bouba

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Interesting question.
I'm afraid that the answer is quite expensive.
You can use a simile device that you buy in the chandlers for a few pennies.
These cheap ones come with a punch and a riveter which you hit with a hammer.
But, the best job is to use the correct tool which is disproportionately expensive.
I bought mine years ago and then a second one for home long before I started making covers for this boat.

This is the one that I use:-
Pres-N-Snap-Fastener-Tool_1.jpg


I think that the cheapest place to get these ones is from Sailrite.
But there are other options about - it is just that these ones are particularly good.
Yes, I saw the riveter on Sailrite for nearly $300 and suspected I’d need one. The package is adding up fast. I need several jobs done, so it is economically possible to buy the equipment and DIY. That is unless French customs hits me for 120% duty, which has happened to me before when ordering stuff from the U.S.
There’s still a lot of man maths left in this decision ?‍♂️?
 

Hurricane

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There’s still a lot of man maths left in this decision ?‍♂️?
Yep - it is a difficult decision.
I think you have got to enjoy doing this kind of thing as well.
You WILL save money but the personal reward that you get from making the covers yourself has got to be factored into the decision.

So, my advice is don't do it for cost reason alone.
Do it because you think you will enjoy doing it.
There are often useful other things that you can do with the skill - garden furniture covers etc.

And one final thought.
Covers don't need to be perfect (I try to make mine look good).
Remember, most of the covers that you have on the boat get "taken off" and put away.
That said, I am confident enough now to tackle a bimini (and we have one of the biggest biminis.

BTW the Press tool that you saw on the Sailrite website is half that price.
See here Pres-N-Snap Installation Tool - Sailrite
the poppers themselves can be bought on Ebay for very little.
 

Hurricane

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That is unless French customs hits me for 120% duty, which has happened to me before when ordering stuff from the U.S.
In the UK, the import duty from the US was a little more than the VAT would have been - IIRC the Sailrite cost was $1395 and I paid about £380 import duty.
What we need is a Trade Deal with the US!!!!!
 

Portofino

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You need to "read up" on battery theory.
I also have a Victron Battery Monitor.
Which doesn't just monitor the voltage.
It takes everything into consideration, including how much current has been drawn from the battery bank.
It then shows the battery state as a percentage which is much more accurate that just monitoring the voltage.

The Victron unit also shows the instantaneous current draw/charge of the system.

As an example, when the batteries are at their least charge, they will take about 80amps.
Half an hour later that drops to about 40 amps.
Half an hour later that will drop to about 20 amps
And so on.
So, after 3 hours, they might be charging at 10 amps
So it would take several hours to completely charge the bank.
Note that at the start of the charge cycle, the batteries are taking significantly more than after an hour or two.
Those figures are only an example though.

When I first fitted the solar panels, I watched the system like a hawk.
Now, I am less worried - the system - just works.
Yes I have ah discharge and recharge monitoring and use those to watch whats going on .
Not sure where you thought I use volts ?
Yes can see the initial bulk or what ever it’s called which quickly drops then levels off as per smart chargers theses days .
But how do you know your charger has not decayed from what it supposed to do ? Say for the sake of easy maths its a 100 ah on full whack in the first 10-20 mins of bulk .But due to decay it s max is only 75 .So when that 1/2 f s it’s 37 instead of 50 and so on .
It explains why folks go through batt banks or need additional top ups or seemingly longer geny runs in the morning or PM .

There are some basic rules of thumb kicking about of charger size and batt bank cap + which type of bat as some are better at rapid stuffing in terms of longevity than others .
I had as I said my system professionally looked at and re configured.
Each bank is identical 2x 180 ah AGM sealed batteries with a 80 ah triple independent outlet charger .
Normally I see it start after a day a anchor at 40 ah bulk .Have seen 60 for first 10 mins and even the max nearly 80 with a set of duff 6 Y old bats .
But after an 1 hr it’s moved right down to between 0-2/3 ish so fully charged .
Fridges , water pump any lights on etc .
So what iam saying is you do not necessarily need your solar additional set up to top up based on your missing 10 % per day compound effect if the charger and batt ( correct type inc ) are matched and the charger has not decayed unnoticed resulting in what was a decent working match becoming a miss match and the boat eating batteries prematurely.
Obviously adding consumers or a faulty existing consumer will cock up the drain and calcs .
My guy measured the consumption of the fridges and the dashboard stuff like the plotter and depth sounder left on etc .
A duff fridge eg may not just pack up , it may 2x or 3 x its drain without you knowing sucking juice out of the house bank killing them at anchor if the low volt cut off has knackered for example.

Basically any body finding they are eating batteries with they need a professional electrical survey doing .That’s the point .
Then go from there .
Make sure nothings faulty first .
 

Hurricane

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Yes I have ah discharge and recharge monitoring and use those to watch whats going on .
Not sure where you thought I use volts ?
Yes can see the initial bulk or what ever it’s called which quickly drops then levels off as per smart chargers theses days .
But how do you know your charger has not decayed from what it supposed to do ? Say for the sake of easy maths its a 100 ah on full whack in the first 10-20 mins of bulk .But due to decay it s max is only 75 .So when that 1/2 f s it’s 37 instead of 50 and so on .
It explains why folks go through batt banks or need additional top ups or seemingly longer geny runs in the morning or PM .

There are some basic rules of thumb kicking about of charger size and batt bank cap + which type of bat as some are better at rapid stuffing in terms of longevity than others .
I had as I said my system professionally looked at and re configured.
Each bank is identical 2x 180 ah AGM sealed batteries with a 80 ah triple independent outlet charger .
Normally I see it start after a day a anchor at 40 ah bulk .Have seen 60 for first 10 mins and even the max nearly 80 with a set of duff 6 Y old bats .
But after an 1 hr it’s moved right down to between 0-2/3 ish so fully charged .
Fridges , water pump any lights on etc .
So what iam saying is you do not necessarily need your solar additional set up to top up based on your missing 10 % per day compound effect if the charger and batt ( correct type inc ) are matched and the charger has not decayed unnoticed resulting in what was a decent working match becoming a miss match and the boat eating batteries prematurely.
Obviously adding consumers or a faulty existing consumer will cock up the drain and calcs .
My guy measured the consumption of the fridges and the dashboard stuff like the plotter and depth sounder left on etc .
A duff fridge eg may not just pack up , it may 2x or 3 x its drain without you knowing sucking juice out of the house bank killing them at anchor if the low volt cut off has knackered for example.

Basically any body finding they are eating batteries with they need a professional electrical survey doing .That’s the point .
Then go from there .
Make sure nothings faulty first .
OK - you have it you way.
I KNOW my solution works.
 

Portofino

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Are those pliers for the same poppers that we use?
Yes , comes with different inserts for all kinds .
Good chandlers stock them with the poppers .

She had a dabble with her trusty ELNA .Bigger stronger needle .We reinforced the Bimini early 19 , added some “ bias binding “ where the poles press and double stitching the zips using allegedly uv resistant thread .
As a said a custom tender cover it lasted 2 years as the material in the UV weakened.Should have chosen a quality material .
Replaced a few weak ( read distorted) poppers on the instrument cover .
 

MapisM

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I have set it to call for generator for anything over 1500w.
J, I think the best way of using the genset autostart, rather than limiting the instantaneous absorption, is based on total battery drain in % (which the BMV unit can keep monitored).
I mean, a peak absorption of 2 or even 3kW isn't going to kill the batteries, if it lasts for just a few seconds.
But a constant absorption of 1499W for hours could indeed run them flat without starting the genset, if it's only set to run when you hit 1500W.

PS: FWIW, when I had the Multiplus 3kW on the old boat, and also the BMV battery monitor, I did not use the genset autostart at all.
My view was that I only used the inverter while I was onboard anyway, so I was happy to have "only" the BMV alarm go off, and then decide myself whether to turn the genset on, the inverter off, or whatever.
 

jrudge

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It allows "load above x for time y" As I recall I set this for 60 seconds for the reasons you state.

The reason I have chosen this route is simplicity of install. I could operate circuits into inverter/ non inverter but this is a lot of work. This way If I turn on the hob it just start the gen.
 

Hurricane

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I prefer to start and stop the generator manually.
Probably no need to worry but I do like getting the generator to stabilise for a short while before switching it over to the ship's power systems.
Likewise, I like to run it with no load for a minute or so before shutting it down.
IMO, this avoids any spikes but I expect that the electronics in the inverters would cater for all that and I'm probably worrying about nothing.
That said, I don't have an auto generator start on my inverters anyway.
 

GravyStain

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Did any of you guys do your coastal theory before doing your practicals? I have time on my hands (can't go anywhere to do practicals yet due to COVID).

Or, indeed , did you even bother as time on the boat is a great teacher anyway, or would I need it for insurance puropses?

Thanks guys.
 

Switch

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Did any of you guys do your coastal theory before doing your practicals? I have time on my hands (can't go anywhere to do practicals yet due to COVID).

Or, indeed , did you even bother as time on the boat is a great teacher anyway, or would I need it for insurance puropses?

Thanks guys.

Definitely do your theory first. Insurance companies like you having qualifications especially if you're not that experienced.
 
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