Fully battened mainsails

[dunedin]

Can I remind you about that when you're coming back from Cherbourg in the pissing rain and a rising 7 and a boat with a wheel under its doghouse wanders by helmed by a bloke in a tee shirt?

Do agree, though, that a boat with a wheel out in the open is the worst of all worlds.

That should do it, I've upset pretty much everyone but the motorsailers

Nope. Sitting undersprayhood with autopilot on and mug of coffee is fine.

PS Need to fix your weather forecasting, not your wheel location !

 

[lw395]

A few posters describing fully battened sails as 'heavy'.
Not sure that's necessarily the case.
There are heavy sails with short battens, light sails with all sorts of battens.
The battens themselves can be light or heavy.

I suspect some people are mixing actual weight with 'hard to hoist'. Some sails will be a little bit heavy but hard to hoist disproportionate to the little extra mass. FB sails can put a lot of friction on the mast track while hoisting, because the luff curve doesn't match the mast while the sail is half way up.

If you are actually talking about serious extra mass aloft, that can be a very bad thing. The extra pitching inertia can really sap performance when the sea isn't flat. A good FB sail should not need heavier cloth. There are good bad and mediocre sails with all sorts of batten lengths.

FB sails can have a bigger roach, with a more efficient planform, but on many yachts that is severely limited by the backstay.

 

[Joker]

When it's raining, I stand under the sprayhood with a cup of coffee.

There are these frightfully modern inventions called 'autohelms'.

 

[Blueboatman]

I have a FB @36 feet and it is indeed so heavy that I have to winch the last 2 metres up..( Something I have never had to do before...) But that is the only downside I have experienced.. I have a complete spare identical sailmakers FB main and associated hardware in the attic, ''just in case'', as one does, but have had no need to swap out any component(yet). FB seems pretty well thought out and standard issue these days..

However: I did have made a new, spare 'short batten' mainsail and used that for a couple of months to see what differences were actually discernible .. It is massively lighter and stows away unobtrusively on board for offshore stuff-remember that ? -and theoretically the boat should have had significantly more weather helm and heel, in like-for-like conditions and should point a tad less well too . I can't say I really noticed as much difference as I was expecting which suggests I am an indifferent sailor and/or am missing something because a well made, fully battened mainsail is a thing of beauty and user delight.. Go for it, I suggest, you won't be disappointed and if you don't, may always be wondering what if you had?...

 

[geem]

Our FB main has cars on every connection to mast not just at the battens.
I can hoist the 400sqft sail to the top on my own. My wife can hoist it within 2m of the top of the mast before she uses the winch. Maybe you need to go to the gym?

 

[lw395]

I have a FB @36 feet and it is indeed so heavy that I have to winch the last 2 metres up.....

What does it actually weigh?
I suspect the resistance to going up is friction more than weight. It's a few GRP battens not a pitch pine gaff? There's only so much cloth in it. Is it a two-man lift when it's rolled up in the bag?

 

[Blueboatman]

What does it actually weigh?
I suspect the resistance to going up is friction more than weight. It's a few GRP battens not a pitch pine gaff? There's only so much cloth in it. Is it a two-man lift when it's rolled up in the bag?

Not quite a two man lift at all, all bagged up. Certainly a two arms and steady feet , though ..But all those cars and battens and batten pocket reinforcings certainly add up. Add in the turning blocks at foot of mast, and deck organiser, possibly some lesser degree of friction where it goes through the jammer and angles lightly onto the self tailer winch and definitely friction from the cars interacting with the mast/slot when hoisting and not continuously aligned into the wind and voila..One floating Popeye gymnasium ...
Whereas the short batten main I can lug around with one hand in its bag..
Not better, not worse, just different.
If I had external halyards I would simply revert to a two part main halyard, which is a very smooth set up that I have used in the past on wood mast

 

[geem]

Not quite a two man lift at all, all bagged up. Certainly a two arms and steady feet , though ..But all those cars and battens and batten pocket reinforcings certainly add up. Add in the turning blocks at foot of mast, and deck organiser, possibly some lesser degree of friction where it goes through the jammer and angles lightly onto the self tailer winch and definitely friction from the cars interacting with the mast/slot when hoisting and not continuously aligned into the wind and voila..One floating Popeye gymnasium ...
Whereas the short batten main I can lug around with one hand in its bag..
Not better, not worse, just different.
If I had external halyards I would simply revert to a two part main halyard, which is a very smooth set up that I have used in the past on wood mast

Ah, so its friction through all the blocks leading back to the cockpit rather than weight of sail? We reef at the mast so only friction is sheeve at top of mast and cars. It would be interesting to see if you could hoist the sail from the mast and how much difference that makes. We hoist in to the wind ish. We dont always go head to wind, but just enough to ensure battens dont foul the lazyjacks as we hoist. We always have the mainsheet loose so the sail swings about some so it doesnt have any wind in it,

 

[Blueboatman]

Yup. Friction in the Rutgerson cars is certainly noticeable when hoisting at the mast..I am told that the cure for that one is "its only money" ..
I think winding a cabin top winch is a bit less efficient than hauling down and swigging up the halyard at the mast.. A clean slot and slides and a bit of silicon spray do ' a bit' ...The rest is relatively minor and the sail descends quite nicely when you let the off and the halyard does run freely from the cockpit when dropping
I can live with it !
And I hope I haven't deterred the OP from considering upgrading his mainsail performance ..

 

[Dan Tribe]

"And I hope I haven't deterred the OP from considering upgrading his mainsail performance .. "

Far from it.
All the positive reactions on here , and from sailmakers, have convinced me to go for it. Apparently technology has moved on since I had a Shearwater.
Next decision, new traditional sail cover or stackpack.
Thanks everybody for your comments, most helpful.

 

[prv]

We find that you have to be absolutely head to wind when raising or dropping sail

I used to think that, then I discovered a technique that, at least on my boat, works with the wind on the beam or anywhere forward of it.

By sheeting the jib hard in, as if close-hauled, and letting the mainsheet right out so that the boom assumes its own position, I find the front portion of the mainsail backs in the airflow off the jib so that it's standing out directly aft of the mast track. The cars will then slide up or down very nearly as easily as when head to wind. It doesn't always land in the stackpack quite as neatly, but it's easy to throw it in after bringing the boom back amidships.

If I'm motoring anyway, I'll just go head to wind, so I usually use this technique when I've either sailed off a mooring or away from anchor, or I want to sail right up to the marina entrance. Either of those things I prefer to do under just the jib anyway - less sail means slower and more time to act, getting it in or out is just a furling line, and gybing my way up the twists of the river is easier without a boom to worry about. So I will naturally have the jib out already when hoisting the main, and want to keep it after lowering. The opposite order to when transitioning to or from power (so the jib isn't flogging head to wind).

Pete

 

[Stemar]

When it's raining, I stand under the sprayhood with a cup of coffee.

There are these frightfully modern inventions called 'autohelms'.

Yes, I have one, they're great, but not much use when you're dodging container ships, unless you have a posh one with a remote control