From North Spain to Tewkesbury (Law and Advice)

[TheMerryFisher]

Hi all,

I have a Jeanneau Merry Fisher 805 which I purchased in Spain but she is now registered on the SSR and deregistered from Spain, so a British vessel.

I don't hold RYA qualifications but I do hold the Spanish P.E.R which allows me to use boats up to 24m in length, night/day and up to 12m from the coastline.

I am aware that in the UK you don't actually legally NEED a licence and my qualification is internationally recognised. I have read the MCA guidance (https://assets.publishing.service.g...49/MGN_599_on_Pleasure_Vessel_Regulations.pdf) and it states that as she is under 80GT my boat is exempt from Merchant certification.

Will I encounter any issues bringing a UK flagged boat via North Spain, French Coast and across the channel by having a Spanish licence?

Has anyone done a trip on a motor boat from Spain to the UK?

 

[RobbieW]

Short answer is no, you wont encounter any issues with certification - especially as she is now Brit flagged

My concern would be range and availability of refueling points, especially up the French Atlantic coast.

 

[TwoHooter]

I don't think you will have any issues with paperwork providing you import the boat before 31/12/2020. I am assuming that if you bring the boat in before then HMRC will accept that the boat is VAT paid in the UK on account of VAT having been paid in the EU when the boat was first sold. You might want to consider taking the boat back into the EU within the temporary export period so that you also maintain Union Goods status in case you ever want to sell the boat to an EU national.

Lots of people on the Mobo forum have done similar voyages but in vessels more suited to the length of passage. You might raise a few eyebrows simply because of the size of your boat. If you haven't already read it I recommend this thread: Extended time aboard

RobbieW's post raises perhaps the most important question. Fuelling points are few and far between on this voyage.

Have your insurers agreed to cover you?

This comment about a passage along the French Atlantic coast is very pertinent: 'Make sure your anchoring gear is up to scratch, we anchored several times in gales, no other choice. '

Please post your adventures on here - very interesting boating!

 

[TheMerryFisher]

Thank you both for replying to my post.

The boat will be imported before the 31/12/2020 so no issues on that front.

You learn something everyday, I will certainly bare in mind taking her back to the EU (more than likely crossing the channel) to maintain the Union Goods status, I will do some bed time reading on that.

I am aware that she really isn't the type of boat for this passage, but I am hoping to make a slight adventure, providing it is safe of course.

As far as I am aware there are no caveats on my insurance that I can see but I will certainly double check with them, that could put a complete halt on my big plans.

With regards to fuelling, I had the following route thought out:
1) Coruna - Navia
2) Navia - Llanes
3) Llanes - Bilbao
4) Bilbao - Mimizah
5) Mimizah - La Rochelle
6) La Rochelle - Saint Jean de Monts
7) Saint Jean de Monts - Lorient
8) Lorient - Plogoff
9) Plogoff - Brest
10) Brest - Penzance
11) Penzance - Ilfracombe
12) Ilfracombe - Weston
13) Weston - Teskwbury

Total Distance: 1043 nm.

If it's not possible then I will have no option but to put her on the back of a truck.

 

[RobbieW]

Thank you both for replying to my post.

The boat will be imported before the 31/12/2020 so no issues on that front.

You learn something everyday, I will certainly bare in mind taking her back to the EU (more than likely crossing the channel) to maintain the Union Goods status, I will do some bed time reading on that.

I am aware that she really isn't the type of boat for this passage, but I am hoping to make a slight adventure, providing it is safe of course.

As far as I am aware there are no caveats on my insurance that I can see but I will certainly double check with them, that could put a complete halt on my big plans.

With regards to fuelling, I had the following route thought out:
1) Coruna - Navia
2) Navia - Llanes
3) Llanes - Bilbao
4) Bilbao - Mimizah
5) Mimizah - La Rochelle
6) La Rochelle - Saint Jean de Monts
7) Saint Jean de Monts - Lorient
8) Lorient - Plogoff
9) Plogoff - Brest
10) Brest - Penzance
11) Penzance - Ilfracombe
12) Ilfracombe - Weston
13) Weston - Teskwbury

Total Distance: 1043 nm.

If it's not possible then I will have no option but to put her on the back of a truck.

Didnt know about Mimizan, if thats usable it might work - Arcachon is the one described in most pilots and it doesnt always sound fun. I'd still be concerned that Jeanneau say the range is 125Nm so I'd be carrying some 20l containers. The leg from Bilbao is around 100Nm and from Mimizan 135ish, then from Brest its 125ish so you've several passages where you'll probably need to top up en route. I'd certainly be using the first few legs to find out what consumption really is before committing to a longer one.

 

[TwoHooter]

Well I've done some mad things in my life and adventures are fun and I don't like being a wet blanket, so I was hoping I could offer encouragement. But if the boat has a range of 125 miles I can't see this being anywhere near safe. On a coastal passage a motorboat really should have enough range to miss out a planned stop if weather makes it impossible to get in. So you need to go through your list of ports and find out what is the longest combination of 2 legs. Then make an allowance for wind or tidal stream sapping your range and add a reserve.

If you store extra fuel on board you will have to be absolutely certain the containers aren't going to come loose and crash around. Loose cargo on a boat is a frightening thing. You'll need to consult the boat's stability tables and work out where to put the fuel. And you'll need a pump to transfer it. And you'll need to be sure the fuelling stations will agree to fill tanks that aren't part of the boat's original design.

Your original question was about paperwork and I just did a quick search to see what category your boat is, but I drew a blank. I'm assuming it's category "B - Offshore". Is that right?

BTW, Ilfracombe dries. Can this boat take the ground?

 

[Sneds]

And no where to stop at Weston
Perhaps the back of a lorry would be the best best

 

[TwoHooter]

I wondered about Weston but assumed MerryFisher meant Uphill Wharf. There was no diesel on the only occasion I've been there but perhaps that has changed.

In fact I haven't studied the route in any detail but I just glanced at Brest-PZ. I think this passage would require doubling the vessel's original tankage and a wait for perfect weather conditions, including the time needed to wait at anchor for the gate to open at PZ.

Looking forward to learning what category the boat is.

MerryFisher, if you are still thinking about this why not run the idea past a professional delivery company to see what they think? Any reputable yacht delivery business will give you an honest answer as to whether your idea is achievable or not.

 

[Snoopy463]

Weston is opposite Cardiff. You can get anything there!

 

[Graham_Wright]

Weston to Tewkesbury could be the most exciting bit! There is the small matter of a canal where you will need some documentation. Boat Safety Scheme certificate which you will probably never need on salt water.

However, that is a long way down the line! You will also discover that the Bristol Chanel has TIDES!

 

[LittleSister]

Some good advice above.

It seems to me an interesting and in some ways appealing challenge (in part because it is not a very 'practical' proposal).

I think if you (or someone else) were to do it, it would require a lot more careful planning, with many more stops than you are anticipating, plus flexibility - and lots and lots of 'spare' time - in carrying out the plan. Unless you have months to do the trip it will be something of an endurance test.

Availability and carrying capacity of fuel is one thing to be addressed, but do not underestimate the constraints of weather, sea state (including swell dependent entry to some of those potential Atlantic ports), tiredness, and the likelihood you will face at least some sort of mechanical or equipment problems in the course of such a trip.

You don't say where in Spain the boat is. I am guessing northern Spain as you don't mention Portugal. If it were on the south or east Spanish coasts, coming through France on the canals is a more realistic option.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Weston to Tewkesbury could be the most exciting bit! There is the small matter of a canal where you will need some documentation. Boat Safety Scheme certificate which you will probably never need on salt water.

However, that is a long way down the line! You will also discover that the Bristol Chanel has TIDES!

I have sailed from Lydney to Tewkesbury and merely needed to state on my application to the Sharpness Ship Canal authorities (Now the Canal & River Trust) that my boat was gas safe etc, and it was all fine. If the OP is planning to keep it at Tewkesbury on the Bradford Avon for more than a week rather than lift out there, then such statements may need evidencing these days and a boat safety certificate.

However Weston to Sharpness needs a very clear understanding of tides and sandbanks indeed. Arrive too early and you will may run aground, arrive too late and you wont get in or wont get there. And as for cheating and avoiding the canal by going up over Gloucester weir on a Spring!!

I imagine the fuel costs alone for the whole trip would be similar or greater than the cost of sticking it on a lorry. And when you add in paper charts, marina fees, licences, pilot fees for Upper Bristol Channel etc its quite an exercise

 

[Graham_Wright]

I have sailed from Lydney to Tewkesbury and merely needed to state on my application to the Sharpness Ship Canal authorities (Now the Canal & River Trust) that my boat was gas safe etc, and it was all fine. If the OP is planning to keep it at Tewkesbury on the Bradford Avon for more than a week rather than lift out there, then such statements may need evidencing these days and a boat safety certificate.

However Weston to Sharpness needs a very clear understanding of tides and sandbanks indeed. Arrive too early and you will may run aground, arrive too late and you wont get in or wont get there. And as for cheating and avoiding the canal by going up over Gloucester weir on a Spring!!

I imagine the fuel costs alone for the whole trip would be similar or greater than the cost of sticking it on a lorry. And when you add in paper charts, marina fees, licences, pilot fees for Upper Bristol Channel etc its quite an exercise

The Canal and River Trust!

They are reasonably tolerant but for more than a visitors licence, you need the BSS cert. They were not happy with just a gas cert. I had to apply as a visitor each month and confirm that the boat (all 9 tonnes of it) were lifted out a the end of each month and trailered away!

 

[TwoHooter]

I think if you (or someone else) were to do it, it would require a lot more careful planning, with many more stops than you are anticipating, plus flexibility - and lots and lots of 'spare' time - in carrying out the plan. Unless you have months to do the trip it will be something of an endurance test.

The trouble is that over large parts of the route there simply aren't many extra stops available, particularly along the French Atlantic coast. A friend of mine who has a Nordhavn 47 recently left Guernsey heading for Northern France (I forget which port), couldn't get in because of the swell over the bar, tried to anchor in the lee of an island but found it untenable, and had to press on much further to find shelter.
Little sailing boats go remarkable distances, even round the world, but small Benettau motorboats are a different matter.
The OP seems to have gone very quiet! I hope he doesn't think we are hostile. For my part I do admire adventurers, but I totally agree this would need a lot of planning and a willingness to sit on the boat in port for lengthy periods waiting for calm weather for the next leg.

 

[LittleSister]

The trouble is that over large parts of the route there simply aren't many extra stops available, particularly along the French Atlantic coast. A friend of mine who has a Nordhavn 47 recently left Guernsey heading for Northern France (I forget which port), couldn't get in because of the swell over the bar, tried to anchor in the lee of an island but found it untenable, and had to press on much further to find shelter.
Little sailing boats go remarkable distances, even round the world, but small Benettau motorboats are a different matter.
The OP seems to have gone very quiet! I hope he doesn't think we are hostile. For my part I do admire adventurers, but I totally agree this would need a lot of planning and a willingness to sit on the boat in port for lengthy periods waiting for calm weather for the next leg.

I am well aware of the sparsity of harbours along the French southern Atlantic coast, which is one reason why lots of time is required - you'd have to wait until you were sure the swell was down before setting off for one of those whose entrance is swell dependent, and preferably have choice of at least two harbours within range. That in turn is part of what I meant by more careful planning.

A small motorboat has several disadvantages for this trip, but also has a shallow draft which opens up some possibilities not available to a deeper draft large motorboat and most sailing boats.

The OP hasn't been back to the forum since his last post on Sunday. We may get to hear what he decides and how it turns out, but we usually don't from such posts from new members. A query such as his is, however, an interesting problem for discussion, and the various opinions expressed might perhaps be of interest to others either now or in the future.

 

[TheMerryFisher]

Hi all, thank you for all of your interesting replies and I get a feeling that the general consensus is to put it on the back of a lorry!

With regards to the classification she is in fact a Cat B.

With my route, I would not be planning on deviating more than 12nm from the coastline and I have 25L (50L total) containers on board for extra fuel. I have plenty of safe storage for this. Does this change matters for everyone or not really?

I was unaware of the certification to enter Sharpness. Does this require an inspection or is it simply a paper exercise?

Apologies that it takes me time to get back to you all, I am still here for the long run but I work away most of the week as well as in the final few months of my Open University degree so Sunday is my only rest day!

Thanks all

 

[TheMerryFisher]

Some good advice above.

It seems to me an interesting and in some ways appealing challenge (in part because it is not a very 'practical' proposal).

I think if you (or someone else) were to do it, it would require a lot more careful planning, with many more stops than you are anticipating, plus flexibility - and lots and lots of 'spare' time - in carrying out the plan. Unless you have months to do the trip it will be something of an endurance test.

Availability and carrying capacity of fuel is one thing to be addressed, but do not underestimate the constraints of weather, sea state (including swell dependent entry to some of those potential Atlantic ports), tiredness, and the likelihood you will face at least some sort of mechanical or equipment problems in the course of such a trip.

You don't say where in Spain the boat is. I am guessing northern Spain as you don't mention Portugal. If it were on the south or east Spanish coasts, coming through France on the canals is a more realistic option.

Apologies, she will be coming from La Coruña.

Well I've done some mad things in my life and adventures are fun and I don't like being a wet blanket, so I was hoping I could offer encouragement. But if the boat has a range of 125 miles I can't see this being anywhere near safe. On a coastal passage a motorboat really should have enough range to miss out a planned stop if weather makes it impossible to get in. So you need to go through your list of ports and find out what is the longest combination of 2 legs. Then make an allowance for wind or tidal stream sapping your range and add a reserve.

If you store extra fuel on board you will have to be absolutely certain the containers aren't going to come loose and crash around. Loose cargo on a boat is a frightening thing. You'll need to consult the boat's stability tables and work out where to put the fuel. And you'll need a pump to transfer it. And you'll need to be sure the fuelling stations will agree to fill tanks that aren't part of the boat's original design.

Your original question was about paperwork and I just did a quick search to see what category your boat is, but I drew a blank. I'm assuming it's category "B - Offshore". Is that right?

BTW, Ilfracombe dries. Can this boat take the ground?

I always find pictures work best, she doesn't have much of a draft so she should be fine for taking the ground...should, famous last words...

 

[david_bagshaw]

Hi all, thank you for all of your interesting replies and I get a feeling that the general consensus is to put it on the back of a lorry!

I have 25L (50L total) containers on board for extra fuel. I have plenty of safe storage for this. Does this change matters for everyone or not really?

I was unaware of the certification to enter Sharpness. Does this require an inspection or is it simply a paper exercise?



Thanks all

I would add my self to the lorry vote. Having done solo voyages amsterdam to the baltic and to worcester, i personally wouldnt want to do the biscay When you are here, there is plenty of challenging voyages (ireland, wales , scillies) available without the extremes of your intended voyage.

As to topping up tanks from 25 ltr pots, its fine to think of this sitting comfortably on the sofa, completely different bucketing around at sea. As an example it is quite difficult changing filters in the engineroom on a modest day in a 56 foot displacement motor yacht. I would suspect a sea top up might contaminate the tank with added sea water, nevermind the risk of you going overboard in the process.

I prepared the following some time ago SMYC If you are in the UK some time come and visit the club in south worcester one weekend.

Included in the smyc notes is the rubric for entering at sharpness.

 

[rotrax]

I sailed out of Torreveja with a guy we shall call Dave - for that indeed is his name. He had a Hawk 20 open sailboat with an outboard in a well.

He bought it from Newhaven, across the Channel, via the French Channel and Atlantic coasts to Bordeux where he went inland on the Rivers and Canals to Marseille on the Med. He then day sailed to Torreveja.

I think it is possible to do similar in reverse with a small motor boat. Bordeux then inland on the excellent French Canals.

Much safer than the sea route for your vessel.

Dave was an adrenaline junkie of the first water!