First of January coming up
- Thread starter sailaboutvic
- Start date
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
No. I mean 360/360. If you are resident of Portugal you can stay anywhere in Schengen for 360/360. I mean ALL year including leap years so I don't know the shorthand description to take both into account. I can't remember how many days in a leapyear. However residency means 183 days a year in the country of residence as minimum anyway.Is 360/360 a typo and should read 180/360
What I am not clear about is what applies to a boat between Schengen states. For instance, to sail from Greece to Italy a yacht must exit Schengen waters then re-enter near Italy which probably means a port of entry is needed. Logically it is probably best to "assume" EU waters were not crossed so entry to an anchorage would be OK. Maybe declare that the boat went the long way round.
Grahams letter implies that no stamp is necessary on the way to or from a Schengen state. That means no need to worry. Dont't forge your own chains.
nortada
Well-known member
I would love to think you are correct but this not what is being reported in the vast majority of sites on Schengen.
I look forward to others with an interest in this issue giving their understanding.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Grahams reply to his query states quite clearly that residence permit holders are not limited to 90/180 because their residence permit allows them to stay for longer periods. In my case that is 366/365 , (I looked leapyear up in google). If your residence state gives you the same rights as a Portuguese citizen then you have the same rights as an EU citizen. Laws overlap, it is why there are so many lawyers in the world. Apropo(?) Your residence status does not give you the right to become a citizen until a five year period of continual residence is triggered. In other words your residence gives you the same rights as a citizen but not the right to become one until after five years.
I recall one such law I was personally involved with. It was against thw law for a serving member of the military to become a member of parliament. Another Law stated that any citizen of the UK can become a member of parliament. Yet another Law stated that only a UK citizen can be a member of the armed services. The rush of soldiers applying for early discharge to stand for election was tearing the military apart until it was sorted by case law.
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syvictoria
Well-known member
The following Wiki page provides a useful table summarising acquisition of citizenship requirements for the EU27:
Citizenship of the European Union - Wikipedia
Citizenship of the European Union - Wikipedia
nortada
Well-known member
Members of the Armed Forces becoming MPsBit of thread drift but Member of Parliament (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia answers that point. My understanding is that any member of the armed forces can stand for Parliament but if elected they have to leave the armed forces. Can’t say I can remember the military being torn apparat by this issue.
Now back to topic.
Fully agree that a British resident in an EU state has unlimited right of residence in that country but not so sure this applies to all other EU states. I stress, residents not citizens; citizens have a completely different deal and can enjoy unlimited stay anywhere in the EU. Before 1/1/21 all Brits were EU citizens but not now.
Bit of thread drift but Member of Parliament (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia answers that point. My understanding is that any member of the armed forces can stand for Parliament but if elected they have to leave the armed forces. Can’t say I can remember the military being torn apparat by this issue.Now back to topic.
Fully agree that a British resident in an EU state has unlimited right of residence in that country but not so sure this applies to all other EU states. I stress, residents not citizens; citizens have a completely different deal and can enjoy unlimited stay anywhere in the EU. Before 1/1/21 all Brits were EU citizens but not now.
syvictoria
Well-known member
This page provides a summary of Directive 2004/38/EC on the right of EU citizens and their families to move and reside freely within the EU:
EUR-Lex - l33152 - EN - EUR-Lex
Regretfully it doesn't seem to make any reference to residents (temporary or permanent/long term) having similar rights to freedom of movement.
@BurnitBlue - Does the wording on your residence permit make reference to your FoM rights, and if so, does the text include an EU directive number? Thank you.
EUR-Lex - l33152 - EN - EUR-Lex
Regretfully it doesn't seem to make any reference to residents (temporary or permanent/long term) having similar rights to freedom of movement.
@BurnitBlue - Does the wording on your residence permit make reference to your FoM rights, and if so, does the text include an EU directive number? Thank you.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
That was the fudge to solve the UK/military/parliament thing. Good one too.
The relevence is too focus attention that Law frequently have side effects. If residence of a member state gives the same rights as a citizen of that state, and that an EU citizen is a citizen of a member state and that EU citizens have 366/365 freedom of movement then what is the problem?
The relevence is too focus attention that Law frequently have side effects. If residence of a member state gives the same rights as a citizen of that state, and that an EU citizen is a citizen of a member state and that EU citizens have 366/365 freedom of movement then what is the problem?
nortada
Well-known member
That fudge existed when I joined up in 1959. When we were attested we were advised for better or worse we were in, unless we died or became a member of Parliament.
Sorry for the thread drift.?
Sorry for the thread drift.?
nortada
Well-known member
If that were the case agree, unfortunately, the problem is in most cases residency does not give citizenship rights.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Of course it does not spell out every dot or crossed tee. But it does state quite catagorically that I have the same rights as a Swedish citizen. Do you honestly expect my residence permit to list every darned thing like the right to protection, the right to drink alcohol on Sunday etc. If my residence permit gives me the same rights as a Citizen and a citizen has the right to freedom of movement as an EU citizen then lets turn the question around.
Can you state the place where it specifically states that a resident of a Schengen state who only has the same rights as a citizen of that state but not a citizen (passport holder) of the resident state does NOT have the rights of a citizen of a member state wrt freedom of movement. I really would like to know because as a permanent resident of over 25 years I can make plans to get a Swedish passport. I do not want a swedish passport so I will be content without one. In other words where does it say that a person who has the rights of a citizen of a member state does not actually have the rights of a member state.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Well, I am sad for you. It does in Sweden and you can check this from the horses mouth at their web page at www migrationsverket.se. the whole site is in excellent English. You will find the statement of same rights as a citizen in many places.
Basically you are correct in that I can only speak for the Swedish interpretation of rights of residency.
nortada
Well-known member
It is my understanding that the Schengen Rules apply to the whole Schengen Zone but of course, individually countries hold sovereignty over access to and length of stay in their country.
By definition, they cannot apply their rules in other sovereign Schengen states, which leads on to the 90/180 rule.
Please do not feel sorry for me. As a Brit with Portuguese residency, I can spend unlimited time in the U.K., unlimited time in Portugal and up to 90/180 days in other EU states. More than meets my aspirations of 6+ months in Portugal and the balance in the U.K., with short excursions into other EU or non-EU countries.
Others may shed more light on this discussion.
I, for one, would be delighted if Schengen was extended to 183/360.
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syvictoria
Well-known member
Sorry, but are you able to provide a specific page link please? I've had a look at the LTR pages, but can't see anything detailing the specific additional rights afforded to LTRs and a search for 'Freedom of Movement' doesn't bring up any results.
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
I think we can all stop arguing , at the moment its different of option , my option is that people won't have freedom of moment just because they have residency in one country but that's just my option, only time will tell I guess ,
I do hope Burnitblue right for his sake and others who taken out residency,
But I go back to what I said before , if that was the case why aren't people who cross from n Africa and got residency in say Italy not jumped on a train and move to country which can offer them more .
I do hope Burnitblue right for his sake and others who taken out residency,
But I go back to what I said before , if that was the case why aren't people who cross from n Africa and got residency in say Italy not jumped on a train and move to country which can offer them more .
nortada
Well-known member
Arguing
We are not arguing we are exploring options and extending our knowledge - what else is there to do under curfew
?183/365, would be a far bigger step and for many longer term visitors, would remove the need for residency.
Not a matter of principle, it also makes sound economic sense for all parties
Question is how do we get this option into the bigger arena for debate
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sailaboutvic
Well-known member
We had a nice walk along the beach ,Arguing
We are not arguing we are exploring options and extending our knowledge - what else is there to do under curfew
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Yes, but I cannot copy and paste anything except what I write. I can copy it with my laptop and a mouse which is not available for a few days. I am on a tablet android at the moment which is new to me. However I will describe the path I took to try to answer your question a few minutes ago. Go to British Citizens tab at the left of the opening pages. Select How to apply for residence status. On that page scroll down to about a third of the way down to a paragraph that says "when we have received your application" it will also say "During the time that you are waiting on a decision, you have the same rights as a European Union citizen and can continue to live, work, and study in Sweden" This is as close as I can get without copy and paste to simplify the answer. Note though that this is specific to a British citizen renewal of residency. Also note the wording in this case is for European citizen rights rather than Swedish citizen rights. I can assure you that those words are used further in the application process. Maybe on one of the application pdf's in English. Believe me they are on many pages but there are a lot of them. "A residence permit has the same rights as a zswedish citizen. By implication they also mean European Union citizen.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Well it seems you got back to the boat OK. Those saltwater crocodiles are hungry because no fish in the sea. You were alone and the only target for miles. You were lucky. Don't scoff. It is just as easy for a crocidile to nip over from Panama than it is for that twit iwho did it in a 12 foot boat.
Thread drift just to annoy nortada.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Sorry for all the words. I am beginning to realise that I have lived abroad for too long and I have lost the ability to write English concisely. Some of you could have said post 38 in half a dozen words. And made sense.