First Aid Priority

[JumbleDuck]

Having done a few such courses, I reckon they're probably as good as you can get.

I did an excellent 3-day FAW course designed for people working outdoors with children. We pretty soon learned that the answer to any question was "Call for help and try to keep their circulation going and stop blood leaking out until help arrives. I don't think there was a single case study or example where our contribution ended things.

 

[Adios]

I did an excellent 3-day FAW course designed for people working outdoors with children. We pretty soon learned that the answer to any question was "Call for help and try to keep their circulation going and stop blood leaking out until help arrives. I don't think there was a single case study or example where our contribution ended things.

Makes sense. A&E doctors will have 8 years of full time training and even then they'll need to call in specialists for many things. With the best will in the world what can be learnt in 3 days?

Paramedic training is 3 years and thats mostly to keep you alive briefly until they can get you to the A&E doctor with 8 years. A friend of mine who's a junior paramedic tells me unlike most medicine jobs if you want extra training and max experience you want a rural job in the country not the city where they've usually dropped you off after a few minutes. In other words even the 3 years standard training isn't really sufficient for maintaining people for more than a short while. And that's with a fully equipped ambulance not the contents of a tiny first aid kid.

Maybe the best thing a few days of training can give is some of the things NOT to do. Not pull out the thing that impaled the leg, not move the person with the suspected broken back etc. Do the courses cover that?

 

[LittleSister]

A couple of years ago, crewing someone else's boat, I was thrown across the cabin and smacked the back of my head hard on the edge of a nav table. (The boat lurched in just that second or so I was transferring my 'weight' from having my back wedged against a bulkhead and turning to grip a handhold behind me, and I was 'tripped' across the companionway steps, twisting as I went.

I was very fortunate to receive impressively expert care from the Owner/Skipper. (I suspect he'd done quite a bit of this sort of thing before.) For instance, I was trying to get up, but he made me stay sitting on the floor for a while. I couldn't think about much at the time apart from how much it hurt and wondering whether I could have cracked my skull, but he was obviously looking, both then and keeping an eye on me later, for signs of concussion, etc. I'm not sure I would have remembered to do that.

It didn't knock any sense into me, but it did impress on me some important lessons.

1) I resolved to go on a boat-oriented first aid course. I've been on quite a few other types of first aid course in the past, but forgotten much of what I once knew, and being aboard has its own particular dangers and issues, as graham and others have pointed out. I regret that I haven't yet done this (in part due to Covid lockdown, though).

2) I often sail single-handed, and such an accident then would have been very challenging to cope with alone. (Lucky I haven't got a nav table on my boat, eh? ) Even when I have a crew, it is often of fairly novice level. It's all very well the skipper having been on this that or the other training course, but what if it's the skipper injured?

3) I have two first-aid kits on my boat, but both of them are fairly pathetic and more suited to a hurty finger. I had a sizeable gash across the back of my head, and the Skipper found need for adhesive strips (Steri-Strips?) to pull the wound together, a fairly large dressing, and a longish bandage to hold it all on my head, most of which wouldn't have been found in my 1st aid kits. We'd also had to shave the back of my head (fortunately I had an electric razor aboard at the time) as the adhesive strips wouldn't stick to my hair (despite it being cropped short and I'm nearly bald anyway). So I've since supplemented my first aid kit with bigger dressings, more bandage, some adhesive strips, etc., and a razor.

4) I also realised later that, as we were mid-channel at the time, it would be hours before we got ashore had I needed professional help or facilities. Even had we needed to call out the lifeboat or helicopter, it would have been quite a while before it arrived, picked me up and got me back to civilisation. In that instance, I wasn't in mortal danger, but without the adhesive strips and someone to pull the wound together p.d.q. I'd probably be now sporting a highly visible scar.

Anyway, graham, I hope you sprayhood is OK, and your swmbo has graciously reimbursed you for any repairs required for the damage she caused.

 

[Adios]

When I did an international certificate of competence exam my examiner fell over in the cockpit and somehow gashed his hand requiring first aid. This guys really committed to putting me through my paces I thought

 

[Stemar]

Well, I suppose that what it all boils down to is that first aid is something to be avoided at all costs. Think and plan, so you don't get hurt, especially sailing short handed.

 

[colind3782]

The current advice is don't bother trying to check for a pulse - in adverse conditions it's likely to be difficult to find and looking for it may waste time. If the casualty is unresponsive and not breathing normally, call for help then start CPR .

Correct. A lot of this is common sense and I'm not getting into protracted arguments about it but suffice to say that the longer the brain is starved of oxygenated blood, the less chance of a successful outcome. This is what I do on a daily basis.

 

[Thistle]

Maybe the best thing a few days of training can give is some of the things NOT to do. Not pull out the thing that impaled the leg, not move the person with the suspected broken back etc. Do the courses cover that?

Yes.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Maybe the best thing a few days of training can give is some of the things NOT to do. Not pull out the thing that impaled the leg, not move the person with the suspected broken back etc. Do the courses cover that?

Mine did. "Call for help, stop them from dying if you can and DON'T DO ANYTHING ELSE" was the general gist.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Correct. A lot of this is common sense and I'm not getting into protracted arguments about it but suffice to say that the longer the brain is starved of oxygenated blood, the less chance of a successful outcome. This is what I do on a daily basis.

The advice on my course was that it's always worth trying CPR, because if the casualty is alive and doesn't need it they'll thump you one when you start.

 

[girlofwight]

The advice on my course was that it's always worth trying CPR, because if the casualty is alive and doesn't need it they'll thump you one when you start.

yes, that would be my philosophy!

 

[girlofwight]

I realise this may be controversial, but I think, if we can, it’s our humanitarian duty to be first aid trained and keep the training up to date.

I have First Aid at Work training, the three day one, for work. Other than one minor sprain I’ve never had to use it at work, but twice out of work I have, most seriously looking after two head injuries in a bus crash until the blue lights arrived.

I’ve also received first aid, and was *very* grateful that a nurse was walking behind me when I took a tumble on local authorities unmarked pavement works and grounded head first.

So I think we should get as much training as we can.

Doesn’t help the spray hood damage though...

 

[Gary Fox]

I realise this may be controversial, but I think, if we can, it’s our humanitarian duty to be first aid trained and keep the training up to date.

I have First Aid at Work training, the three day one, for work. Other than one minor sprain I’ve never had to use it at work, but twice out of work I have, most seriously looking after two head injuries in a bus crash until the blue lights arrived.

I’ve also received first aid, and was *very* grateful that a nurse was walking behind me when I took a tumble on local authorities unmarked pavement works and grounded head first.

So I think we should get as much training as we can.

Doesn’t help the spray hood damage though...

I agree it's everyone's civic duty to have basic first aid skills and be ready to use them. I have just patched up cuts etc on yacht crews, but I genuinely saved someone's life in the street, which I'm very proud of, resulting from the STCW95 first aid course giving me the knowledge to deal with a serious head injury.

I also feel that the Gov and the Law Society or whoever should put out a strongly worded message that if you attempt first aid, and it fails, you will not be prosecuted.
You do hear this misconception being bandied about, and it needs stamping upon from a great height.

 

[Sandy]

I have First Aid at Work training, the three day one, for work. Other than one minor sprain I’ve never had to use it at work, but twice out of work I have, most seriously looking after two head injuries in a bus crash until the blue lights arrived.

When on a First Aid at Work course many years ago the Instructor said he would skip Hypothermia, I politely suggested that he cover the topic as I worked in a frozen foods company and we had freezers the size of small villages. A chap on the other side of the room piped up he worked for ITV and his job was maintaining TV transmitters! We did some additional training on frostbite in-house.

 

[Thistle]

I agree it's everyone's civic duty to have basic first aid skills and be ready to use them. I have just patched up cuts etc on yacht crews, but I genuinely saved someone's life in the street, which I'm very proud of, resulting from the STCW95 first aid course giving me the knowledge to deal with a serious head injury.

I also feel that the Gov and the Law Society or whoever should put out a strongly worded message that if you attempt first aid, and it fails, you will not be prosecuted.
You do hear this misconception being bandied about, and it needs stamping upon from a great height.

That seems to be the generally held view in the UK (so long as the actions do not go beyond the training.) Beware, however, that the same may not apply abroad.

 

[Adios]

That seems to be the generally held view in the UK (so long as the actions do not go beyond the training.) Beware, however, that the same may not apply abroad.

In some countries its more likely you'll be prosecuted for not trying. Legal protection for erstwhile good Samaritans is not as complete here as it is in some places but that might be a good thing. It is easily possible to do more harm than good and giving too much the impression that everyone is immune from litigation might be a bad idea. Its apparently extremely rare that someone will try and sue a helper and people in the UK do usually seem to jump in to help so perhaps we have the balance right. That is until everyone got mobile phones and now just stand around filming.

 

[cpedw]

) I have two first-aid kits on my boat, but both of them are fairly pathetic and more suited to a hurty finger.

Don't underestimate the value of a roll of electric tape/sellotape or similar, along with (ideally clean) hankies, shirts, pillow cases etc. A good first aid kit is nice to have and may produce a neater looking result. Infection control isn't top of the 1st aid priorities.

 

[colind3782]

Don't underestimate the value of a roll of electric tape/sellotape or similar, along with (ideally clean) hankies, shirts, pillow cases etc. A good first aid kit is nice to have and may produce a neater looking result. Infection control isn't top of the 1st aid priorities.

It's OK to improvise

 

[Gary Fox]

Don't underestimate the value of a roll of electric tape/sellotape or similar, along with (ideally clean) hankies, shirts, pillow cases etc. A good first aid kit is nice to have and may produce a neater looking result. Infection control isn't top of the 1st aid priorities.

Also, much of the kit is used by vets, eg wound cleaning spray, tape, bandages and it's cheaper. And the packaging has pictures of brave smiling puppies

 

[JumbleDuck]

Don't underestimate the value of a roll of electric tape/sellotape or similar, along with (ideally clean) hankies, shirts, pillow cases etc. A good first aid kit is nice to have and may produce a neater looking result. Infection control isn't top of the 1st aid priorities.

When I did the FAW course I mentioned we were told to improvised with anything we could find when treating casualties. When I "broke my arm" I ended up covered in duct tape - probably more than was needed in revenge for my screams every time they touched me. The best bit was when the owner of the centre where the course was run came to see what was going on and quietly "had a heart attack", which it took us all about ten minutes to notice.