Facnor SD165 Upper Swivel Bearings

[dje67]

The upper swivel on my Facnor SD165 has become sticky over time, although a little spray of ACF50 into the bearings seems to have helped keep it running freely all summer. The mast is now down and I wnat to do a more permanent fix.

A new swivel is many hundreds of pounds, so I want to have a go at refurbishing the old swivel.

Anyone done this?

What bearings did you use and who did you get them from?

Has the refurbishment been successful?


Related question - anyone replaced the bearing seals on the main drum bearings. I've got grease leaking out and need new seals - any suppliers of these seals?



Ta.

 

[jwilson]

The upper swivel on my Facnor SD165 has become sticky over time, although a little spray of ACF50 into the bearings seems to have helped keep it running freely all summer. The mast is now down and I wnat to do a more permanent fix.

A new swivel is many hundreds of pounds, so I want to have a go at refurbishing the old swivel.

Anyone done this?

What bearings did you use and who did you get them from?

Has the refurbishment been successful?


Related question - anyone replaced the bearing seals on the main drum bearings. I've got grease leaking out and need new seals - any suppliers of these seals?



Ta.

My Facnor 165 had the same problem: but went from "a bit sticky" to not turning at all under load in a week. Needed to fix fast, so bought a new one (ouch) as local rigger said they were not designed to be serviceable. A few months later the same happened to the lower drum bearings.

 

[nigel1]

I posted drawings of the SD 165 drum and swivel here
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...or-sd290-roller-furler-11871.html#post1097087

I stripped the drum and upper swivel last month. The seals for the drum are 44 x 60 x 7mm available here.

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p2...with+Garter+Spring+R23+/+TC/product_info.html

For the drum and swivel you will need decent long reach internal and external circlip pliers. Cheap ones wont do it.
Bearings are not press fit, and I would describe then as a cup and cone arrangement.
I could not find any replacements for the cup and cones.

In my case, when I stripped down the drum, I found about 25% of the balls missing from the upper bearing, I can only assume someone in the past stripped it down and lost the bits. I measured the balls in the upper bearing as 5mm, and bought new ones, but on reassembly, it was really tight, so I re-ordered 3/16" balls and that seemed much better.
Getting the upper seal and bearing out is easy enough, dig out the seal (very carefully, do not lever against the inner part of the drum). Remove the circlip under the seal. Once that is out, I used a couple of small allan keys to hook out the upper part of the bearing, then the balls come out, then use the keys again to get the lower part of the bearing out. Next is the circlip under the upper bearing
Lots of rags needed now to get out all the grease. The awkward bit is getting to the circlip on top of the lower bearing, but it is doable with good circlip pliers.
Once that is out, the outer part of the drum should pull off the inner part, leaving behind the lower bearing and seal. (undo the set screws holding the lower plate to the drum beforehand)
When rebuilding, be very careful and take your time in seating the seals. Try and get as much new grease as you can into the drum unit.
If any of the set screws are seized in, I found a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid worked very well as a release oil.
Good luck





The swivel OK, although pretty dirty inside. Stripped it all down and cleaned, then lubed with teflon dry lube and it works very well.

 

[rhumlady]

If the seals are lip seals with the spring inside make sure the replacements have stainless springs or you will be back to it in no time.

 

[cmedsailor]

If you want to make another try before replacing things this is what I did with my swivel when it started getting sticky a couple of years ago:
Removed the cap (lift it up actually)
Washed with lots of hot water
Spray lots of WD40
Washed again with lots of hot water
Let it dry
Spray with "Mclube one drop" (excellent product)

I do this twice a year and it runs perfectly now.

 

[dje67]

Thanks to all who have replied - some excellent help, suggestions and tips. I've also had some good support from Euospars who stock almost all the spare parts for the Facnor SD gear. I'm about to start trying to dismantle the furler and get the drum and swivel back to the house and then I'll try splitting some of the foil sections to see what condition the internal bearing onto the forestay are in.

I'm going to replace the forestay this winter, but annoyingly the current forestay has an eye swaged onto each end so I'll need to completely strip down the whole foil to get the old stay out, or cut the stay and thread the new stay through the foil assembly. Does anyone know what diameter the foil bearings' internal hole is so that I can ensure I get a terminal that will fit through the bearings when I thread the new stay through the foil?

I want the new forestay to not have fixed eyes on each and and am considering changing the lower eye for a turnbackle setup. Anyone else converted in this manner and is there enough space at the bottom of the drum to cope with the two sides of the turnbuckle, toggle and wire terminal? My drum is mounted on link plates that are about 20cm long. 8mm rigging.

Thanks.

 

[cmedsailor]

It makes me wonder if we have the same boat (Beneteau 361)!
I also replaced the forestay two years ago and changed the lower eye with a turnbackle setup. It was a very very good decision because since then I adjusted the forestay tension three times (I have in mast furling so I need to tighten the forestay and have a straight mast rathen than tigthening the backstays and bending the mast). You only need to remove the two screws holding the link plates, lift the whole thing up and turn.
You need to strip down the whole foil. It's NOT a difficult job, believe me. If I remember correct you cannot pass through the drum the turnbackle due to the drum's shape.

PS: I tried to load a picture so you see what I mean but didn't manage despite resizing it to 10kb.

 

[dje67]

I'm a 36cc of 1998 vintage, so I'll bet the setup is largely the same.

BTW I did have several goes at cleaning the existing swivel during the summer. I used various de-greasers and even a carb. cleaner (which was effective as it could be sprayed-in and removed a lot of gunk). I originally tried to avoid using any lubricant, which didn't give good results. I did try some teflon sailcote which worked fairly well. Eventually I thought that the upper circlip was rusting a bit and that the rust was getting into the bearing, so I tried some ACF50 on the circlip and bearing. That seemed to do an excellent job and the swivel kept working well until I hauled out. Now that the mast is down and the rigging is getting replaced I've decided to bite the bullet and do as much overhaul as possible, particularly since the lower drum is depositing grease all over the place!

It makes me wonder if we have the same boat (Beneteau 361)!
I also replaced the forestay two years ago and changed the lower eye with a turnbackle setup. It was a very very good decision because since then I adjusted the forestay tension three times (I have in mast furling so I need to tighten the forestay and have a straight mast rathen than tigthening the backstays and bending the mast). You only need to remove the two screws holding the link plates, lift the whole thing up and turn.
You need to strip down the whole foil. It's NOT a difficult job, believe me. If I remember correct you cannot pass through the drum the turnbackle due to the drum's shape.

PS: I tried to load a picture so you see what I mean but didn't manage despite resizing it to 10kb.

 

[orangemikey]

I have the same furling gear which I serviced last year (The circlips in the bottom drum on mine had rusted through so one day all the ball bearings suddenly dropped out onto the deck / into the sea!)

They can be dismantled but are a bit tricky, you will need to buy all new circlips and ball bearings but I bought these easily and cheaply enough online.

Since rebuilding mine the furler is working as good as new!

As for the foil bearings all they are is plastic blocks with a (6mm??) hole through the middle for the wire.
My forestay has a stalock terminal at the top and I had to remove this to take the wire out of the foil sections.

Any questions let me know and il try help if I can.

 

[orangemikey]

btw the facnor manual says that grease must not be used and the only maintenance should be washing the bearings with fresh water.

 

[nigel1]

Odd that Eurospar say they have all the spares for the SD range.
When I spoke to them early this year, they said they had. Then mid year when I called again to check, they no longer carried spares for the drum or swivel, and advised neither did Facnor.

 

[nigel1]

btw the facnor manual says that grease must not be used and the only maintenance should be washing the bearings with fresh water.

This applies to the upper swivel,the lower drum is packed with grease, unless the earlier SD range were different. When I managed to persuade Facnor to hand over the drawing of the drum and swivel, they inferred that the design had changed, mine was a later model

 

[dje67]

Well, I'm halfway through.... got the upper swivel home and opened it up using the help earlier in this thread. I think that the swivel has been jamming because the circlips that hold the bearings into the body are made of steel, which had corroded. THe clips were still intact, but the rust had got into the bearings and was jamming it all up. I've replaced the clips with stainless ones (Tef Gel'd into the alloy housing) and replaced the balls in the bearings with delrin plastic ones. What a difference it has all made. I can now hold one half of the swivel and spin the other part and it will keep spinning for ages! Hopefully this will now be OK under load.

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj388/dje67/IMG_1021_zpsfe4f110e.jpg

I've now started on the drum. It is a little more complicated and although I bought some decent circlip pliers, they are too bulky to fit into the drum to remove the lower circlips, so I'll need to re-order some more pliers...! In my drum, the upper seal had failed, allowing water into the bearing. Over time this turned the grease into a water-laden gunge that was leaking out the (failed) lower seal.

Having seen the difference in the upper swivel with delrin bearings, it has got me thinking about the design of the lower drum. I'm wondering about why the lower drum is grease-filled and why it shouldn't just be made up like the modified swivel. I'll fit new seals to prevent water ingress then replace all the balls in the stainless steel bearings with delrin balls. These are self-lubricating and if I make the circlips stainless (using Tef Gel again) I'm thinking that the drum will work just as well dry, with the delrin balls and stainless clips & bearing races. The only issue I can see is that if the upper seal did fail again, then there's no protection on the alloy.

So is there any reason why I should fill the drum up with grease and, if I do, what kind of grease should I use for delrin balls?

 

[nigel1]

Dont know what grease to use with Delrin, but glad to hear it is going well so far.
Can you tell us what size Delrin balls you used for the upper swivel, and the supplier, useful for future overhaul.
Same for the circlips as well please.
Cheers and happy xmas

 

[Heckler]

Well, I'm halfway through.... got the upper swivel home and opened it up using the help earlier in this thread. I think that the swivel has been jamming because the circlips that hold the bearings into the body are made of steel, which had corroded. THe clips were still intact, but the rust had got into the bearings and was jamming it all up. I've replaced the clips with stainless ones (Tef Gel'd into the alloy housing) and replaced the balls in the bearings with delrin plastic ones. What a difference it has all made. I can now hold one half of the swivel and spin the other part and it will keep spinning for ages! Hopefully this will now be OK under load.

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj388/dje67/IMG_1021_zpsfe4f110e.jpg

I've now started on the drum. It is a little more complicated and although I bought some decent circlip pliers, they are too bulky to fit into the drum to remove the lower circlips, so I'll need to re-order some more pliers...! In my drum, the upper seal had failed, allowing water into the bearing. Over time this turned the grease into a water-laden gunge that was leaking out the (failed) lower seal.

Having seen the difference in the upper swivel with delrin bearings, it has got me thinking about the design of the lower drum. I'm wondering about why the lower drum is grease-filled and why it shouldn't just be made up like the modified swivel. I'll fit new seals to prevent water ingress then replace all the balls in the stainless steel bearings with delrin balls. These are self-lubricating and if I make the circlips stainless (using Tef Gel again) I'm thinking that the drum will work just as well dry, with the delrin balls and stainless clips & bearing races. The only issue I can see is that if the upper seal did fail again, then there's no protection on the alloy.

So is there any reason why I should fill the drum up with grease and, if I do, what kind of grease should I use for delrin balls?

Sorry to resurrect an old one but just looking at doing mine, coukd you post the sizes of rhe balls amd circlips and where you got them from please?
Stu

 

[Ywiz]

I also have a sticky SD165 drum and have now, after some struggle, manage to dismantle it (I didn't manage to do it as described in this forum, IF you are interested how I did it , Please let me know) and found all the bearing races in a bad shape and they have to be replaced. The problem is that bearing races are not available from nor facnor, eurospars, or elsewhere, what I can see. Has someoneelse found them? However, I just realise that the swiwel (c30) seems to have the same bearings as the drum according to the swivel exploded view drawing, and facnor has a part/kit number for these two bearings. I haven't got an answer fr.o.m. Facnor/eurospars jet, whether they sell it or not, but once I have, I will dismount one of the swivel bearings and try on the drum. Has someone else tried this already?

No answer yet from facnor, still waiting . B.t.w has anyone found any vendor who sells lose bearing races of larger dimensions (44x60mm in this case ) ?
----
I did not get any answer from facnor , nor eurospar, ordered instead the swivel bearings through a swedish facnor retailer . I have now got the bearins ( appr. 140 EUR ) and they are exactly the same as the ones in the drum, as I suspected. Now it's "just" to reassemble the drum

 

[davidej]

Odd that Eurospar say they have all the spares for the SD range.
When I spoke to them early this year, they said they had. Then mid year when I called again to check, they no longer carried spares for the drum or swivel, and advised neither did Facnor.

We also have a bene 361 with, I think the same system.

Despite being told no spares are available, I contacted the factory direct.. If my memory is correct, they dispatched all we needed direct from France.

You really need to replace all the plastic bearings at each join in the luff extrusion. Ours were very worn.

 

[Ywiz]

Do you have the adress/name of the factory?

 

[davidej]

As far as can remember, I found the Facnor website and sent an email on the contact us tab.

 

[Ywiz]

Ok, I thought you ment a factory , not facnor directly. I have sent a request to facnor but have no answer yet