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Ethnic minorities and sailing.

convey

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I suspect it is down to culture rather than money. Of course, that leads to the question of mixing or not as the case may be between cultures. If the immigrant population are not taking to the water in various guises like the indigenous population, one needs ask to what extent they are integrating?
Given the decreasing number of people in the UK involved in maritime activities on the whole, does that mean the British are less integrating with themselves, or just disintegrating?

It strikes me that up until the 1960s, a very large proportion of the population never saw the sea in their lives, except for a weeks holiday to Blackpool; farmers, miners, industrial trade workers etc. Were they less British than the fishermen on the coasts?
But there are huge differences between various cultures on how to deliver those basic needs. I do not consider all cultures to be equal. I know this will be a red rag to the PC brigade but I observe some cultures are very much second quality.
Which ones?

I'm surprised you are allow to write such stuff on this forum but I am interested in which ones you consider lesser than you.
 

Tomahawk

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Whilst everyone jumped onto the woke bandwagon, I was asking were the toilets closed by the local councils? How about if your wife was in a similar situation needing a pee? Would you be happy there are no toilet facilities?

I am not proud of the jobsworth culture we see displayed by our councils. They have taken to this situation as a means to throw their weight about like make pretend stazi.
 

awol

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Whilst everyone jumped onto the woke bandwagon, I was asking were the toilets closed by the local councils? How about if your wife was in a similar situation needing a pee? Would you be happy there are no toilet facilities?

I am not proud of the jobsworth culture we see displayed by our councils. They have taken to this situation as a means to throw their weight about like make pretend stazi.
I seem to remember something about a lockdown at the time requiring a valid excuse for being out. Why have toilets open when there should be no customers? I'm sorry your wife was inconvenienced.
 

Tomahawk

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..

I'm surprised you are allow to write such stuff on this forum but I am interested in which ones you consider lesser than you.
Cultures that allow FGM for a start.. Or do you think FGMis acceptable?
Cultures that instruct how women should dress. Full body covering garments for women but not for men. Would you see your daughter treated like that?
Cultures that allow and accept slavery ... or are you too blind in your own world to accept that slavery still exists despite the BLM protestors throwing down the statue on Bristol
Cultures that seem look on anyone of a different race as inferior.. There are a couple in Asia who are awfully good at Tech
Cultures that do not have any social welfare at all ..
Cultures that allow girls to be traded
 
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Tomahawk

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I seem to remember something about a lockdown at the time requiring a valid excuse for being out. Why have toilets open when there should be no customers? I'm sorry your wife was inconvenienced.
Taking a long walk is exercise.. a couple of hours or more in not unreasonable. A man can find a corner.. as long as it's not next to a memorial o a dead policeman... it's a bit more difficult for women
On top of that for women there is a monthly need to have assess to a toilet at fairly frequent intervals ...
Closing toilets is sex discrimination against women
 

awol

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Taking a long walk is exercise.. a couple of hours or more in not unreasonable. A man can find a corner.. as long as it's not next to a memorial o a dead policeman... it's a bit more difficult for women
On top of that for women there is a monthly need to have asses to a toilet at fairly frequent intervals ...
Closing toilets is sex discrimination against women
There, I've corrected that for you.
 

convey

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Cultures that instruct how women should dress. Full body covering garments for women but not for men. Would you see your daughter treated like that?
No, but I know a few men of whom I wish their wives would be treated like that.
 
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convey

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Sorry, I accidentally deleted a post here. Which ones? Which specific cultures.

I wrote that I thought wearing a hijab in hot, dusty, dry environments like the Tuareg or Afghan mountains made perfect sense. Indeed, given the way climate change was going, if only they were made out of UV proof material they should catch on with a much wider audience, preferable to being slopped up with SPF50.
 
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Mark-1

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Which ones?
How about the Sentinelese culture? Exactly "equal" to every other culture in the world right now? How so? We don't know anything about them, for all we know their culture might be way better (or worse) than all the others.
 

convey

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How about the Sentinelese culture? Exactly "equal" to every other culture in the world right now?
Well, got to admit I share their policy as far as dealing with American evangelical Christians. Top marks for them, saving themselves from the same fate so many other indigenous tribes have suffered.

I don't know. It depends on whether you're playing a short game, or a long game. At some point Western society, hard to call it a civilisation, will crash and burn and probably 90% of its population will die out, but the like of the Sentinelese, Aboriginal Australians and other indigenous people's will carry straight on as it always has. Depending, of course, that we don't take the entire planet down with us too.

If you ask me, the greatest quality to aspire to is sustainability, of which we in the West have an appalling track record. We have been a disgusting, destructive, murderous, rapacious plague on the planet and its other residents.

Once we are gone, nothing will bother we managed to pull off iPhones, moon rockets, or even Mahler's 5th.
 

25931

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Racism perhaps?
or simply a desire to argue ?
Nice to see the likes of you, MarkCX, and many others speak out (y) The trouble is, a side effect of comments such as those you highlight is their tendency to hijack threads and turn them into pointless slanging matches.

Trolls love it, but over time the forum loses its friendly buzz as saily types drift away.

I can't be the only one who has noticed this happening.

Sad
You are not the only one. I created a thread with a tongue-in-cheek suggestion that the Brexit forum should be resurrected. We have to tolerate the self-centred but we don't have to like them.
 

25931

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This is not meant to be provocative.

I was musing the other day, with all the speculation about the reasons for increased mortality from Covid in the BAME groups, that I have virtually never seen a BAME person, nor group out sailing. I think, in fact, I have only once seen it and that was about a year ago, when an Asian family were in a boat with a skipper. They looked like they were going for a taster day on the Hamble.
Now, despite the publicity given to the BLM campaign, in the UK only about 3% of our population is, or identifies as, Black. I think twice that are Asian, so that when you add in other groups, we end up with c 14% of our population being non-Caucasian. (My source is the last census, so a bit out of date now. )
Certain things are fairly clear. Black people are concentrated in urban areas like London, so there are fewer around the S coast. They TEND to have lower paid jobs so maybe can't afford a boat. But, equally, around the S coast, or my part of it, we seem to have a large number of successful people of Asian origin, who could afford a boat.
OK, since I left the yacht-share thing I did for two years, I haven't been near the Hamble for c 8 months now, and maybe I have missed them all?

Do people who use the Thames, say, have a different take on it?

I ignore the mega yachts of Saudi princes btw.

Individual cases are no use as statistics, but my own daughter-in-law, who is a person of 50% Pakistani genes, came out for a day on a boat with us, in fair conditions, and just didn't like it- felt a bit sick at times, but just didn't see anything in it, rather as I would feel about knitting. . We did this as a tester as the plan had been to come with us for a week in Croatia.

So, I regard it as interesting, and mildly odd. That's all. I wonder if any sociologist has looked at this? (BTW, this is not meant to be a thread insinuation that sailing is institutionally racist and we "should do more.....etc")
Not all groups (for want of a better word) wish to integrate. In the ´40s I lived in a town with a Jewish population large enough to support a synagogue. Our school had quite a number of Jewish boys not one of whom took part in any non-academic activity, rugby, cricket, athletics, swimming, shooting, non-physical clubs, A.T.C. , or Scouts. I am not being in anyway critical merely observing that I do not find it strange that the members of any activity are not proportionally representative.
 

Babylon

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Quite possibly your experience, however (as noted some pages ago) I went to an ethnically-mixed school in the 1970s with a sizeable proportion of Jewish, as well as lots of Asian and some Chinese and black boys. My memory is of Jewish boys playing all sports with some particularly excelling at rugby and water-polo, fives and squash. As many did CCF as did Voluntary Service (everyone had to do one or the other) with one guy consistently being the best shot on the range and eventually achieving warrant officer status, and the Asian and black boys similarly participated fully. One summer a small group of us, including a Jewish kid, walked the Pennine Way.

Having said that, I agree in part: the culture, opportunities and priorities of most immigrant communities (some even stretching several generations back) won't fully reflect that of the host population, so the numbers sailing, eventing, cricketing, bagging munroes, etc won't be in direct proportion their national percentages... except perhaps football.
 

convey

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After 10 pages, I'm tending to think the answer is, "because they are sensible". But I wonder if an underlying influence is that "boatman" is generally a low caste in most cultures and the sea is generally something to be feared much more.

As in no RNLI to bail you out, just karma philosophy.

How many other peoples developed, or could afford to develop, a culture of gentlemanly sailing as a sport or art form? Sailing was just a practical thing and often, due to its inherent risks, something you only did if you didn't have other options, perhaps.
 

Mark-1

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If you ask me, the greatest quality to aspire to is sustainability, of which we in the West have an appalling track record.
In which case you accept some cultures are "second quality" and that the unsustainable West is a good example of a "second quality" culture.
 

AntarcticPilot

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and the sea is generally something to be feared much more.
It's worth remembering that in the Bible, the sea is always a symbol of chaos and evil - hence the verses in Revelation that speak of "and the sea shall be more" when describing a future, perfect state.

Of course, in our culture, we see the sea as the great pathway between nations and continents; something which sailing on the west coast of Scotland brings home very quickly. But in others, it is still a symbol of primaeval chaos.
 
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