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Does CQR have hollow/lead-filled tip - how do i tell?

skyflyer

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26 Jan 2011
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Worcester, UK
About to have my 1996 CQR re-galvanised. Due to the fact it came with boat from manufacturer and it's age, i doubt its a cheap chinese copy.

Nevertheless the galvanisers are worried about voids. How can I tell. Will it do any harm to drill a small hole through the tip (4mm?)

Cheers

(as someone will almost certainly say don't waste your money, buy a HokeyKokey2000RocDelUltSpadchor, the reason is to make up weight to minimum order for chain re-galvanising at same time)
 

Neeves

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Sydney, Australia.
Genuine CQRs say they are genuine, say Made in Scotland, have the weight embossed in the shank and patent number. Genuine CQRs have no lead, the toe is cast steel.

If its not a genuine CQR, your guess is as good as anyone's - but drill a small hole any way and find out what is inside. The galvanisers will tell you what size of hole is needed (I'd drill more than one if you do find a void as the void might not be continuous). The hole will not impact 'performance' or quality - it will fill with zinc.

Some copies have lead cast into a pocket in the toe with a plate welded to the rear. Some simply have lead cast into the toe and the lead is exposed on the sole of the toe and at the rear of the 'cone' into which the lead is cast.

Another way of getting the weight 'up' is to post here that you are galvanising chain, is anyone wanting to do the same 'now'?

How much is it costing you, prices appear to have drifted up.

Jonathan
 

sailorman

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Genuine CQRs say they are genuine, say Made in Scotland, have the weight embossed in the shank and patent number. Genuine CQRs have no lead, the toe is cast steel.

If its not a genuine CQR, your guess is as good as anyone's - but drill a small hole any way and find out what is inside. The galvanisers will tell you what size of hole is needed (I'd drill more than one if you do find a void as the void might not be continuous). The hole will not impact 'performance' or quality - it will fill with zinc.

Some copies have lead cast into a pocket in the toe with a plate welded to the rear. Some simply have lead cast into the toe and the lead is exposed on the sole of the toe and at the rear of the 'cone' into which the lead is cast.

Another way of getting the weight 'up' is to post here that you are galvanising chain, is anyone wanting to do the same 'now'?

How much is it costing you, prices appear to have drifted up.

Jonathan
Gen CQRs are drop forged & the weight stamped in to the shank with full Lbs ( ie 35 Lb) + made in Scotland. The cast iron versions by S -L are denoted in 1/2Lb less ( ie 34 1/2 Lb )
 

JumbleDuck

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Another way of getting the weight 'up' is to post here that you are galvanising chain, is anyone wanting to do the same 'now'?
I get galvanising done through the local agricultural blacksmiths, who send a weekly load to Glasgow and add my bits and piece at cost.
 

skyflyer

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I appreciate that not everyone has or wants to read all the old threads about galvanising so at the risk of starting a mega thread maybe I can summarise as follows:

Only BE Wedge in the midlands have the specialised equipment to galvanise chain without a large proportion of the links either sticking together with molten zinc or leaving ungalvnised spots where the links were in contact in the bath

There are many other galvanisers that will galvanise anything, including chain - it's up to the individual to decide if it's worth paying the extra to have it done properly!

Three years ago (different boat, then) I liased with two other forum members to batch up chain to make the minimum weight. Nice helpful people they were too but it was a logistical nightmare I will not be repeating. If I wasn't doing the anchor I'd buy extra ungalvnised chain (8mm grade 80, certified available at £3 a metre) and have it done at same time as the galvanising on most new chain is crap anyway.

Wedge charging £1.99 per kilo at moment. VAT on top of that and possibility of additional charge for extra work cleaning if chain is painted etc.

So the economics depend on the quality of your existing chain vs what you can buy new.

All personal decisions that probably won't be helped by rehearsing old arguments for and against, yet again?

:)
 

Neeves

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Highland Galvanisers will also do chain, though whether they have specialised equipment I do not know, Geoff, known here as an instantly forgettable 'MM5AHO' is worth contacting. They did a number of chains for a consortium, I think including his own, just prior to Xmas. I obviously have no connection, Sydney is quite a long way from Falkirk! so I'm not even a satisfied customer (not even a customer), but if you want to know about galvanising Geoff is a forum member, knows his stuff and if I have a query - I ask him.

I might add that buying G80 chain is not the most economic way of buying, unless you cannot get anything of a lower grade. You would be as well using a G30 or a G40. The G80 is expensive because its a Q&T High Tensile chain and when you galvanise you will lose the strength, at least 25%. There is also the worry of hydrogen embrittlement from the acid washing - but that might be a complete red herring. Or buy a Chinese G80 chain - it will be fine and should be cheaper. Chinese 6mm G80 here will cost about Stg1.5/metre (excluding VAT and any local transport element). You also need to check size spec. G80 to EN818-2 will fit a standard metric gypsy but G80 is made to other sizes, Australian made G80 will not fit any known gypsy. Recall also the 2 size specs for metric 10mm and I don't know that EN818-2 is the same as DIN/ISO 12mm.

But at that price - maybe it does not matter?

It is interesting that the comment comes through, again - regalvanised product has a better coating that the original new product.

Jonathan
 

alahol2

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Portchester, Solent
About to have my 1996 CQR re-galvanised. Due to the fact it came with boat from manufacturer and it's age, i doubt its a cheap chinese copy.

Nevertheless the galvanisers are worried about voids. How can I tell. Will it do any harm to drill a small hole through the tip (4mm?)
Not trying to be clever but, if there were voids, how would it have been galvanised originally?
 

parsifal

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17 Jul 2009
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Three years ago (different boat, then) I liased with two other forum members to batch up chain to make the minimum weight. Nice helpful people they were too but it was a logistical nightmare I will not be repeating.
I was one of those whose chain was re-galvanised, thanks to your much-appreciated efforts!
 

vyv_cox

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16 May 2001
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North Wales, sailing Aegean Sea.
About to have my 1996 CQR re-galvanised. Due to the fact it came with boat from manufacturer and it's age, i doubt its a cheap chinese copy.

Nevertheless the galvanisers are worried about voids. How can I tell. Will it do any harm to drill a small hole through the tip (4mm?)

Cheers
As has been said, a genuine CQR is drop forged with a solid tip and should be relatively easy to identify given the advice of other posters. However, there are very many copies of CQRs, in a recent exercise I counted 20 in one east coast marina. Most are obviously not the real thing but some look pretty close. If lead has been poured into a hollow tip it will be fairly obvious as they are unlikely to have hidden the hole by which it entered. Close inspection should reveal it, maybe after a little attention with an abrasive disc.

(If the galvaniser is BE Wedge, I understand their concern. They showed me a CQR copy, made by Manson, that exploded in the zinc bath due to lead in the tip. Could have been a very nasty accident.)
 

skyflyer

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Obviously anyone making a copy, (a fake rather than a "CQR style anchor") can copy the patent number and other embossed marks so I'm not sure that is 100% safe as a way to determine genuine CQR?

However, as per my original post, the anchor was supplied with the boat in 1996. I doubt the boat manufacturer was buying dodgy CQR anchors and supplying same - especially being a US builder and thus highly litigation aware!
 

vyv_cox

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North Wales, sailing Aegean Sea.
Obviously anyone making a copy, (a fake rather than a "CQR style anchor") can copy the patent number and other embossed marks so I'm not sure that is 100% safe as a way to determine genuine CQR?
Embossed writing is more difficult for a copier to reproduce. Many Bruce copies do not have the embossed printed identification. I have never seen a CQR copy that had it.
 

dunedin

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OK so I briefly read this thread once out of idle curiosity (don't even own a CQR let alone want to regalvanise one) ........

....... but now I have banner ads all the time at the top of this forum, advertising B E Wedge with a photo of a regalvanised CQR anchor.
As one leading digital proposition designer said, tailoring is good but it is important that the proposition stays the right side of "freaky" & "disturbing"
 

Billjratt

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Firth of Clyde
If it's got lead in it there will be evidence of how it got there.
I have one such anchor. There is a round mark on the underside of the tip to which a magnet will not stick.
Consider that they had to galvanise it and then pour in the lead in the first place.
 
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